RBIs credited on Errors

[tjj]

It appears that RBIs are being credited to a hitter when he gets on by an error. An example, a runner on 3rd, 2 outs - the hitter hits a ground ball to the SS that he boots - the hitter is safe at 1st due to the error - the runner on 3rd scores because of the same error. In the program if you score this as an E6 held up at 1st, runer on 3rd scores (either advanced by batter or "help up" at home) the hitter gets credited with an RBI - he should not be - the run scores but no RBI should be given. If you advance the runner home on 3rd with an error the SS gets credited with 2 errors when he should only be credited with 1. Is this a bug or am I scoring this incorrectly?

[CSThunderCoach]

From what I understand, and RBI is awarded regardless of how the batter gets on base. The case can be made as to whether the run should be earned or not due to the error, but the run still scores, thus the RBI. An RBI is a performance stat and not really a scoring stat.

[tjj]

See below - 10.04(a)(1) from MLB:

10.04 Runs Batted In
A run batted in is a statistic credited to a batter whose action at bat causes one or more runs to score, as set forth in this Rule 10.04.
(a) The official scorer shall credit the batter with a run batted in for every run that scores
(1) unaided by an error and as part of a play begun by the batter's safe hit (including the batter’s home run), sacrifice bunt, sacrifice fly, infield out or fielder's choice, unless Rule 10.04(b) applies;
(2) by reason of the batter becoming a runner with the bases full (because of a base on balls, an award of first base for being touched by a pitched ball or for interference or obstruction); or
(3) when, before two are out, an error is made on a play on which a runner from third base ordinarily would score.
(b) The official scorer shall not credit a run batted in
(1) when the batter grounds into a force double play or a reverse-force double play; or
(2) when a fielder is charged with an error because the fielder muffs a throw at first base that would have completed a force double play.
(c) The official scorer's judgment must determine whether a run batted in shall be credited for a run that scores when a fielder holds the ball or throws to a wrong base. Ordinarily, if the runner keeps going, the official scorer should credit a run batted in; if the runner stops and takes off again when the runner notices the misplay, the official scorer should credit the run as scored on a fielder's choice.

An RBI is not given when the run would not have scored had the error not been made. If there is a runner on 3rd with 1 out, the hitter reaches due to an error - the hitter would be awarded an RBI because the runner would have likely scored regardless of the error. But with 2 outs - I don't see how a RBI can be awarded. The problem is that a RBI is a performance stat - stats out of IScoreBaseball score an RBI in this situation when the runner should get a Run but no RBI to the hitter.

[CSThunderCoach]

I just scored a sample game and if you use "On the Throw" for how the runner got home, there is no RBI credited to the batter. If you use "Advanced by Batter" then the RBI is credited to the batter. This is the case no matter how many outs. This leaves the decision up to the "official score keeper"

Thanks for the rule posting - learn something new everyday.

[CSThunderCoach]

For Softball: NCAA Rule 14 Section 11 - Run Batted In

A run batted in is credited to the batter for each run that
scores as a result of: a batter’s safe hit (including a batter scoring
on a home run), a sacrifice or sacrifice fly, a ground out, a
double play, a fielder’s choice, a walk with the bases loaded
(whether caused by ball four or an illegal pitch), a hit by a pitch
with the bases loaded, or defensive obstruction with the bases
loaded. A game-winning run batted in is the RBI that gives the
team the lead that is never tied or lost.
Notes:
1. On a play involving an error, an RBI is credited to the batter
only if the runner would have scored without the error. In addition,
an RBI is credited when, with fewer than two outs, an infielder
makes an error on a play made to a base other than home plate.
On a third out, when the runner crosses the plate before the third
out is made on another runner, credit an RBI.
2. No RBI is credited when
a) a runner rounds third base, stops,
notices a misplay and then advances safely to home,
or b) on a base award such as catch and carry or a thrown ball that goes out
of play.

[FTMSupport]

If the run would have scored regardless of the error then mark the runner Safe at Home Advanced by Batter. If the run would not have scored had the error not occurred mark the runner Safe at Home and touch the Error button. When using the Error button as the reason for reaching home the run is not counted as an RBI.

[tjj]

That works - but I think the issue is then the fielder would be hit for 2 fielding errors when really he should only have the 1 error. I have to get the hitter on (with an error) and then if I have to move the runner home on the same error, the fielder would get a 2nd error.

[CSThunderCoach]

In a sample game I just scored, as long as the error is part of the same play on the same player, then only 1 error is recorded/charged. However, the scorebook shows that the batter reached on E6 and the runner advanced on E6. Personally I prefer to see the scorebook show the batter reaching on E6 and the runner advancing on the throw (to show a throwing error), but that is my personal preference.

[FTMSupport]

CSThunderCoach is correct... multiple errors entered on the same "play sequence" to the same player are only credited as a single error. It is up to you to determine which runners advanced because of error vs on the throw, but you CAN have multiple advancing on the error, and it would still only credit the defensive player with a single error.

[tjj]

Okay - that worked, I thought that's what I was doing earlier, but I guess not. Thanks for everybody's help!