Player falls over fence, fair territory

[jdonato]

Just out of curiosity (and loss of memory). I have searched MLB rules but haven't been able to find a straight answer and I can't remember (I know I knew it )....

Ball is hit deep, the center fielder gets to the wall, jumps, makes the catch (glove past the fence), and falls over the fence. Is it an out or a homerun?

I am thinking MLB, but interested in any other league also.


Thanks

[plivengood]

jdonato - I don't have any rules recitation, but as a Mariners fan, I distinctly recall a play like that made by Jay Buhner in the 90s at Fenway Park's RF. He came up immediately, showing ball in glove, and the out was recorded....

[CSThunderCoach]

This is only a guess, but why would this be different than the player catching a foul ball and falling into the seats? It is still an out if the umpire can determine the fielder maintained possession of the ball.

I would imagine that as long as the player was in the field of play (in partial or in full) when the catch was made, where they end up is irrelavent. If the player jumped the fence and caught the ball 20 feet behind the fence, this is not an out. If the player climbs the fence, placing a hand on the top rail and reaches for a ball, catches it, and falls over the fence, I would think that is an out.

[Bryan D Shepherd]

Rule 5.1.1i: Ball becomes dead immediately when...a fielder, after catching a fair or foul batted ball (fly or line drive), leaves the field of play by stepping with one foot or by falling into a designated dead ball area.
Rule 5.1.1ia: If the fielders feet are touching the line or are in live-ball territory, (s)he is considered in the field of play and legally may field, catch or throw the ball without penalty.
Rule 5.1.1ic: If a fielder has one foot in play and the other foot in the air, (s) legally may catch, field or throw the ball unless her entire foot contacts the ground in dead-ball territory, at which time the ball becomes dead, no play is allowed, and the penalty is applied.

Ruling: 5.1.1ia: Batter is out, all runners are awarded one base from the time the ball became dead unless it is the third out.
Ruling: 5.1.1ic: All runners (including the batter) are awarded one base (this is up for debate, I need to do some more reading cause I swear I read that if this play happened, the batter is given a 4 base award).

[jdonato]

Thank you all for your input,

Ruling: 5.1.1ic: All runners (including the batter) are awarded one base (this is up for debate, I need to do some more reading cause I swear I read that if this play happened, the batter is given a 4 base award).

This ruling above is what confuses me. Here is a similar ruling from MLB:

Rule 7.04(c) Comment: If a fielder, after having made a legal catch, should fall into a stand or among spectators or into the dugout or any other out-of-play area while in possession of the ball after making a legal catch, or fall while in the dugout after making a legal catch, the ball is dead and each runner shall advance one base, without liability to be put out, from his last legally touched base at the time the fielder fell into, or in, such out-of-play area.

So from this ruling, after a fielder falling over the fence, the runners are awarded one base. That is not the definition of a classic out, in my "book". And I believe this does not apply to foul balls. I can't reproduce the ruling number now (gotta go.....I'll be back).

Still curious.... or confused

[Bryan D Shepherd]

The rule that I referenced (and subsequent ruling) is in the high school rules book, not the MLB one. I typically use the high school rule book for most of my rule references, because most people will be following those rules, and not the rules of the MLB which will have differing rules to play to the fans.

[plivengood]

So, this is the equivalent of a "catch and carry" situation, Bryan?

[jdonato]

The rule that I referenced (and subsequent ruling) is in the high school rules book, not the MLB one. I typically use the high school rule book for most of my rule references, because most people will be following those rules, and not the rules of the MLB which will have differing rules to play to the fans.

Bryan, let me clarify my last post, since it was done in such a hurry (sorry). I knew the rule you quoted was not from the MLB, and I appreciate the quote, it helps me expand my "knowledge" of rules from different leagues. My "confusion" does not stem from the HS ruling per se. It is because I see all these different possible scenarios, it is an out, it is a one base, or it is a four base.

Still, my question stands. So, in HS, this play would result in a base (or 4?) awarded to everyone, including batter? While it seems that in MLB, the batter seems out, but runners are awarded a base?

Of course this is such an extremely rare play, which makes it difficult to correlate with actual events or experience, except maybe in Bryan's case, whose experience is sooo welcome in this forum.

Thanks again.

[Bryan D Shepherd]

So, this is the equivalent of a "catch and carry" situation, Bryan?

Basically, yea. Now, let me reiterate this, this is my interpretation after reading the rules that I have available to me.

[Bryan D Shepherd]

The rule that I referenced (and subsequent ruling) is in the high school rules book, not the MLB one. I typically use the high school rule book for most of my rule references, because most people will be following those rules, and not the rules of the MLB which will have differing rules to play to the fans.

Bryan, let me clarify my last post, since it was done in such a hurry (sorry). I knew the rule you quoted was not from the MLB, and I appreciate the quote, it helps me expand my "knowledge" of rules from different leagues. My "confusion" does not stem from the HS ruling per se. It is because I see all these different possible scenarios, it is an out, it is a one base, or it is a four base.

Still, my question stands. So, in HS, this play would result in a base (or 4?) awarded to everyone, including batter? While it seems that in MLB, the batter seems out, but runners are awarded a base?

Of course this is such an extremely rare play, which makes it difficult to correlate with actual events or experience, except maybe in Bryan's case, whose experience is sooo welcome in this forum.

Thanks again.

That is correct. What they're trying to get away from is people making these plays because of the safety factor. It is very easy for someone to get hurt making a play like that, and it does happen in the MLB, but remember, the MLB is an entertainment venue. The players are there for the entertainment of the paying customers. Not so much for the college level and below. They want people to come to the games, but they are not lenient at all when it comes to safety. High-risk sports care for safety about as much as college and the like do, but low risk sports like baseball, where there is a very minimal chance of someone getting hurt directly because of baseball, are very much more lenient on the rules.

If you factor in safety, and the weight that different leagues put on it, the rulings begin to make more sense in my opinion.

And yes, this play results in bases awarded to every runner, including the batter. Whether it's 1 or 4, I don't remember and I'm having a hard time finding a clarification on it in my rule book or case book.