Several issues with Motorola Droid 2 Global

[ixamnis]

I notice that the only thing that flips to horizontal view is the stats. Is this a problem with the android app or my phone. Also I had problems scoring two double plays correctly? With a runner on first, One was a 3-6-4 double play, there is no button for that under the "quick" heading and if I try to score it myself then all I can get it to do is show on the scorecard the batter out at first on a 3-6-4 for the first out and the runner from first going to second being shown as being forced out by whatever # the batter was in the lineup as the second out. So it has the incorrect order for how the outs were made. Likewise I could not get a play to show up correctly on the scorecard when with a runner on first the ball was grounded to the center fielder who threw to the shortstop covering second to force the runner at second. Then the shortstop snap threw to first who tagged the runner/batter who had rounded first and was not able to get back in time. It did at least have the outs in correct order but only shows the runner from first to second being forced by the # of the batter in the line up and does not show the 8-6 play that forced that runner out. Plus it gives credit in the stats to the centerfielder for the pick off attempt and the pick off. Also my stats are not correct for my shortstop in being short one put out and assist. Thanks for looking at these issues.

[OhioTex]

3-6-4
Iscore does not have every double play combination on the quick list... sounds like you did not try the "double play" button on for what happened to runner X?
try that and see if you like the score card better.
(i assume out at second is first out and the second out is second baseman covering first)

out, ground out
who touched? 3-6-4
what happened to runner at first? double play

(this should get the stats right including GDP and score card out order and DP notation)

8-6-3
not sure the key strokes you tried, try

in play , safe, fielders choice 8-6
what happend to runner at first?
out, second, force out, 8-6
What happen to batter/runner?
Out, first, tag out, 6-3


FYI - for phone apps portrait orientation is the predominant screen, tablet apps have landscape options

[ixamnis]

I'm really disappointed... I spent two hours trying out your suggestions and I logged on to this forum and typed out a detailed reply indicating that your suggestions did not work for me and what I did and how the scorecard is still incorrect and the stats are wrong and then when I clicked submit, it asked me to log on again and my reply was lost. I've wasted 10 dollars on dumber stuff and I updated my phone now for no good reason, but I really had hoped to use this program. I've done scorekeeping for fastpitch softball for 7 years now and helped with development of the baseballbythenumbers softball scorekeeping book. I guess after trying this out live this weekend when my daughter was guest playing for another team, I'll be back to using my paper baseball by the numbers book when our regular summer season starts next week. I'd recommend anyone who wants to accurately keep score go to their website and order their book and then you'll have an accurate scorekeeping system to compare to this one. (I get no benefit if you do so.)

[OhioTex]

@ixamnis - sorry for your frustrations. but the reality is the software product handles most scoring situations extremely well, and provides extra value beyond the scorebook for thousands of users. Where "problems" have been identified, often through contributions in this community forum, the developers have been extremely responsive to help resolve or debunk as appropriate. providing users hundreds of dollars in value. both paper and electronic scoring have strengths and limitations, but i have found if you want to convert from paper to electronic scoring, there is no better value on the market than iScore.

See next post for technical comments

[OhioTex]

@ FTM - upon further review,

The double play combination 3-6-4 does appear to have a glitch in how the scorebook denotes the out sequence, It is sequencing the first out at first and second out at second (as if a reverse force DP), not first out at second and second out at first (as in traditional DP order). (that said, the PO and Assist stats seem correct, but the GDP stat is missing on batter as previously noted in forum in the 3-6-4 example).

I know double plays have been an on again off again topic in this forum, but i thought i would take a few minutes and explore different combinations to see if a pattern emerges. (FYI - I still like teh idea of a double play wizard option).

I ran a number of test combinations, using the same 'long" keyboard entry steps, the only change was which fielders touched in what sequence. In my limited sample set, (below) it appears, anytime some one covers first base for the second out, the scorebook denotes the first out at first, likely out of sequence.

my isocre entry sequence.. (ie using standard long entry and not using quick outs)
> out
> ground out
> hit location?
> touch each position .. #-#-#
> out
> first ( update, , this should be second)
> double play

as expected examples. (ie first out at 2nd, second out at 1st on scorebook)
6-4-3
5-4-3
1-6-3
3-6-3
4-6-3
5-6-3
6-3
6-4
6-1

Out of order examples. (ie first out at 1st (red circle 1), Second out at 2nd (red circle 2) on score book)
3-6-4
3-6-1 (FYI - there is a quick out that is correct for this one, but long entry is reversed)
4-6-1
5-6-1
6-4-1
6-4-2
5-6-4
5-6-9
I am sure more combinations, just my small sample set,

it would appear anytime some one covers first for second out sequence is off.

[ixamnis]

OhioTex

Sorry, I have a short fuse sometimes. I said in the reply that was lost that I loved the program and hoped to be able to help get some of the bugs that remain in it worked out. I don't know everything about scorekeeping yet, but I've been at it a while. The advantages of using this program still appear to outweigh the remaining inaccuracies.

It looks like you've taken the time to investigate my concern on the double play issue which I appreciate. I thought adding more quick buttons might help. Which is maybe what you mean by wizards, I am not that up on using a droid phone, having just switched from a Blackberry.

I will be having one parent use our paper book and I'll be using the iscore and we'll try to compare scorecards after the game and keep you posted on other issues. (Right now I think there may be an issue with assigning an error to the catcher on a dropped third strike even though the batter is tagged out by the catcher, but I need to look at that more and figure out how to make a living at the same time.) I will know for now that there is a continued effort to look at the double play issues. And also then assigning correctly which fielder gets credited for assists and put outs.

Thanks for your patience with me.

[OhioTex]

further review of the 8-6-3 play

@FTM - question, would it be more correct to enter FC 8-6 and then 6-3 tag out, vs current FC8-6-3 and tag out 6-3? (see below)

@ ixamnis (if reading) i am not sure the original key strokes you did on 8-6-3 play.. but if on score card you get just the force out batter number (ie. FO# ) instead of what you expected FC8-6, I suspect you gave a hit to the batter not a fielders choice. If so that is correctable any time in pitch by pitch editor (change from hit to fielders choice 8-6-3 and see if you like the score book better).

ALL
I just replayed my sequence on a device (as opposed to doing from memory in original post) and i see i may have mixed/missed a step, I have re done below in expanded for added clarity.

In the process, I discovered an oddity / question for FTM , if you score the FC 8-6-3 you get all the PO and Assists fielders stats you expect, but if you score it FC 8-6 and then TO 6-3, you miss the second out fielder stats.

iscore entry sequence suggestion..
in play ,
safe
fielders choice
location
CF-SS -1B (aka 8-6-3 ) done
(special note: if instead you do 8-6 in current version, you will miss second PO and assist fielders stats)
what happend to runner at first?
out,
second,
force out,
What happen to batter?
Out
first
tag out,
SS-1B (aka 6-3) Done

Scorebook
lead runner, out FC8-6-3 between first and second
batterTO6-3 between first and second
(note: if you only entered 8-6 on fielders choice then lead runner scorebook would say FC8-6, which i think looks better, but fielder stats would be missing an assist and a put out)


Fielding Stats
If you do FC 8-6-3, and tag out 6-3
you get complete fielder stats.. ..
CF= 1 Assist
SS = 1 PO, 1 Assist
1B = 1 PO

if you did FC8-6, and then tag out 6-3
you get shorted
CF= 1 Assit
SS = 1 PO, 0 Assist
1B = 0 PO
(aka Missing 6-3 Assist and put out)

@FTM
Would it not be more accurate to enter 8-6 on the fielders choice, and then 6-3 on the tag out. so lead runner on scorebook shows FC8-6 (not FC8-6-3)

EXTRA Semi Related point.. as a reminder.
(as previously pointed out in prior threads and i believe already on FTM fix list, Also no one gets fielding credit for participating in a double play.. though i think it is. two outs, continuous play between pitches.
If you use Double play button, to get the fielders participation in double play credit, the scorebook looks worse in my opinion, so given the choice, I opt for better looking scorebook and live with the missing the fielders DP participation )

[OhioTex]

@ixamnis -- See below..

#1

... I thought adding more quick buttons might help. Which is maybe what you mean by wizards, I am not that up on using a droid phone, having just switched from a Blackberry.

The double play comments on prior posts is not isolated to Android issue, it is the same (for better or worse) on all platforms, iOS and Android.

The solve is not more quick outs, the issue is deeper than number of quick out options, as you will see in my longer post. that said, quick outs can never cover all the possible combinations, too many and too little screen space on phone devices. the wizard idea is a bigger future term idea that a user suggested (that i liked) but it has to date not been part of the developers strategy (for good reasons on their part)

#2

OhioTex
I will be having one parent use our paper book and I'll be using the iscore and we'll try to compare scorecards after the game and keep you posted on other issues.

this is an approach many have said they do, backstop iscore with second paper book scorer. it provides failsafe in case of electronics failure (battery over heating as well as learning curve). It has the added benefit of post game comparison, was that a hit or error? stolen base or passed ball? . I find that post game comparison very enlightening. Pitch by pitch editor can fix most of those 'post game upon second review adjustments easily too'

#3

OhioTex
... (Right now I think there may be an issue with assigning an error to the catcher on a dropped third strike even though the batter is tagged out by the catcher, but I need to look at that more .

By rule definition, it is NOT an error on the catcher it is a passed ball or wild pitch not an error. iScore handles that correctly today.

As you mentioned softball, and it is WCWS time, I thought i would pull the NCAA rules on this for you. but same can be found in MLB and others.

NCAA SB Rule...

NCAA Softball
14.22 No Error Is Charged
No error is charged to a fielder in the following situations:
14.22.15 When the scorer charges the pitcher with a wild pitch or the catcher with a passed ball.
14.22.16 When a batter advances on a dropped third strike that is also a wild pitch or passed ball. In this case, the batter is charged with a strikeout and the pitcher or catcher with a wild pitch or passed ball, respectively.

@ixamnis -- Hope this all helps and we can convert you from "Disappointed" to happily "learning" the new tool to ultimately evolve to "satisfaction" !

[ixamnis]

Wow, I'm impressed now.. What was really frustrating me on the 8-6-3 play (and while starting out with in play, I don't know now if I listed it as a single or a fielder's choice, but when I said the runner was out going from first to second, it showed the screen real briefly for me to assign who touched the ball, but nowhere long enough for me to record anything before asking my what happened to the batter/runner who reached first.) And then the stats were wrong no matter what I did. I will look at it again later today/tonight if I get more time. I agree the appearance and correctness of the scorecard is more important to me than the stats which my understanding is can easily be corrected later.

[OhioTex]

(for anyone reading along, the topics here are not really Motorola android 2 global specific, (except for landscape issue in initial post, most all this is device independent)

@ ixamnis

( as you will see in the forum, the moderators and users will generally respond back and forth to resolution if they get replies back from posters. often around the clock help with users from around the world... generally same day, but sometimes we all do play ball and sleep..)

when you get back on your device, you can edit the HIT /FC decision in Pitch by pitch. If a FC you get a screen prompt for who fielded the ball. If you selected hit, no fielder prompt (initially). It is a bit gray to me if this would be considered a hit or fielders choice, not having seen the play live. I presume a fielders choice as a runner was put out by force.

The screens should not "go by too fast" you have to enter/done to advance. they do not "time out" they take entry.. (if they are advancing too fast without entry, that could be a hardware issue)

you are correct you can "manually" over ride the stats later, after the fact, but i believe it is the goal of FTM / iscore to try and get them right the first time if it is a black and white by rule issue. , only when true subjectivity / scorer judgement or variation in rules come into play would they opt out of trying to get it right by rule. sometimes it may take a few product versions to catch up, but they have to date been great on that.