Earned Run problem and some substitution strangeness

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CaN
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Earned Run problem and some substitution strangeness

Post by CaN » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:22 am

Hi all,

Sorry to post so often; don't want to monopolize the forum.

Two things happened while scoring yesterday's Cubs-White Sox game that I don't understand:

a) player hits single (scored as such), then moves to second on an error during a pick-off attempt. He scores on next single. This is showing as an earned run against the pitcher, but it is, in fact, an unearned run according to MLB. I scored it as 1) pick-off attempt 1-3, (answering "what happened to runner" to get safe to 2nd), and then, 2) assigned error to 1st baseman. Even if I change this to going to second on error and forget about noting the pick-off attempt, it still shows as an earned run.

b) substitutions still acting strange. Some players on a team not showing up as available to be subbed, and I couldn't add them to the roster mid-game. I did seem to be able to fix this with pitch-by-pitch editing after the game. Also, lineup changes without any apparent reason (1st batter suddenly becomes the 4th batter, mid-game). Again, could fix it, but what the hey? Is this one of the bugs addressed in next update?

Regards,
CaN
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OhioTex
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Re: Earned Run problem and some substitution strangeness

Post by OhioTex » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:23 am

CaN

No apology needed on the posting frequency. That is what the forum is for – identifying and solving problems..

#1 - I duplicated the earned run issue. FTM will need to respond / look into their ER logic.
Appears anytime the batter reaches on a scored single (probably same with score dbl and triple, though i did not test), no matter how many errors follow afterwards and get him around the stats give an earned run (unless marked an error when runner reaches home safe) . ( iScore does track the numbers of errors made by whom correctly.) just appears to be confused on the ER. I tried assigning errors directly in play and through misc button - same result. to demonstrate, I put a batter on with a single, and then had runner reach second on error, third on error, and safe at home (advance by batter), even when batter reached on error -- still gave the earned run. only time i got the batter who reach on a scored single to not show as an earned run was when runner reached home safe and i tapped error (say by catcher). then the run was unearned. I Think there is a logic improvement opportunity for FTM on this ..

#2- the crash issues sound like items discussed in other thread, especially the line up jumble. Please confirm your version is v2.01.03 not 2.00.xx (we are still waiting on 2.02.xx to be released by apple -- which definitely corrects some of the substitution crash situations)
CaN
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Re: Earned Run problem and some substitution strangeness

Post by CaN » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:02 am

OhioTex,

Many thanks. Yes, you've duplicated the problem. Seems like iScore doesn't comply with that somewhat nuanced MLB rule. Hope that is changed in future upgrades.
I am using latest available ver. (2.01.03). I find that my lineup changes randomly. For example, just now when I went back to pitch-by-pitch for yesterday's game, the starting lineup had been altered once more. Hope that's what the next patch addresses.
Best,
Cary
PS: Little pet-peeve. Now that we can swipe the strike button to indicated "swinging strike," why does it want to know if it was a strikeout swinging if I do that three times in a row?
jdonato
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Re: Earned Run problem and some substitution strangeness

Post by jdonato » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:25 am

CaN wrote:PS: Little pet-peeve. Now that we can swipe the strike button to indicated "swinging strike," why does it want to know if it was a strikeout swinging if I do that three times in a row?
Exactly. That's why I asked for an enhancement: if third strike is dragged, don't ask, just mark strikeout swinging. Obviously, this could be easier said and wished-for than programmed, but if anyone can accomodate, I am pretty sure FTM will.
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FTMSupport
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Re: Earned Run problem and some substitution strangeness

Post by FTMSupport » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:45 am

For (a) - We will look into the earned run issue, though we need more details of the complete situation. For example, if there is a pickoff attempt that allowed the runner to advance to second, and the next batter hits a home run, that is still 2 earned runs. Similarly, if a runner scores on a passed ball, it might be unearned if the batter then strikes out to make the third out, but if the batter goes on to hit a single, the run is earned. We account for many of these subtleties in iScore. Errors on pick off attempts are even more strange because without the error that allowed the runner to advance, there is nothing to say the runner would have been out (so the inning would have proceeded anyway if it was just an attempt). We do not believe that a runner advancing a base on an error always makes that run unearned. A batter making it to first as the result of an error would be unearned (because he should have been out to begin with), but a runner advancing due to error does not always imply an out should have been made or that he would not have scored without the error. We will look further into the issue however.

For (b) - We do believe this has been addressed with the 2.02 update that is awaiting Apple's approval.

For (PS) about swinging strike. It still needs to confirm the action of the play because you could have a swinging strike that turned into a dropped 3rd strike (allowing the runner to advance to first), and without the prompt, we would not have a way to capture a swinging dropped 3rd strike. The only thing we might be able to do is disable the "Strikeout Looking" button when you did a swinging strike action, but it really does not reduce the necessity to confirm there was a strikeout (vs dropped 3rd strike).
plivengood
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Re: Earned Run problem and some substitution strangeness

Post by plivengood » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:59 pm

When I read thed post about unearned runs in a pick-off situation, my initial thought was exactly as FTM's response. As I understand it, whether that runner scores an earned or unearned run depends on what happens later, and whether, in the absence of the error (looking back on the inning) that run would have scored without the error. Of course, this is complicated in a pick-off attempt because you can't assume the out.

Still, perhaps there should be a manual override to change an ER to unearned when, in the scorer's judgment, a runner would not have scored before three outs should have been recorded?
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OhioTex
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Re: Earned Run problem and some substitution strangeness

Post by OhioTex » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:40 pm

plivengood wrote:Still, perhaps there should be a manual override to change an ER to unearned when, in the scorer's judgment, a runner would not have scored before three outs should have been recorded?
good idea!!
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FTMSupport
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Re: Earned Run problem and some substitution strangeness

Post by FTMSupport » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:20 pm

We have made a note of this. It kind of fits with another request people have made about "between 1/2 inning recaps". We could use that recap to allow you to manual override earned / unearned runs.
jdonato
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Re: Earned Run problem and some substitution strangeness

Post by jdonato » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:36 am

FTMSupport wrote:For (PS) about swinging strike. It still needs to confirm the action of the play because you could have a swinging strike that turned into a dropped 3rd strike (allowing the runner to advance to first), and without the prompt, we would not have a way to capture a swinging dropped 3rd strike. The only thing we might be able to do is disable the "Strikeout Looking" button when you did a swinging strike action, but it really does not reduce the necessity to confirm there was a strikeout (vs dropped 3rd strike).

Yeah, that makes complete sense, forgot about dropped 3rd strikes.... Please ignore my previous request, it was not critical to begin with, and I can continue scoring third strikes as it is now. Thanks for the clarification on the logic... :)
CaN
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Re: Earned Run problem and some substitution strangeness

Post by CaN » Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:20 am

@FTM:
please see MLB official scoring for Whit Sox@Cubs, Sept. 3. Runner advanced to second on 1B's error missing pick-off throw. Scores on next hit. Official scorer: no earned run.
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