The pitching and never recording an out is very clear for stats. The pitcher is credited with the balls/strikes thrown, but is credited with 0 innings pitched if no outs are recorded. You could have a pitcher be the losing pitcher of record in a game with 0 innings pitched. Innings Pitched for stats purposes is very clearly defined as 1 out = 1/3 of an inning pitched. It does not matter if 1 batter is faced to make that out, or 50 batters.
So what you are proposing is that any time the "Skip Batter", "Record as an out" option is used, the following stats should be applied:
Batters Faced = Batters Faced + 1
Innings Pitched = Innings Pitched + 1/3
When tallying up the stats for a pitcher, we would need to add a new column for the pitcher that is "Skipped Batter Outs" so that all the stats add up properly.
Is that what you are suggesting?
Anyone think differently?
Thanks again.
Skipping batter & recording an out
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FTMSupport
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Re: Skipping batter & recording an out
on the side topic of pitcher credit for inning or not ...
For stat purpose - would agree with the way currenly recorded,
I am good with keeping some off book stats if they are league specific
For stat purpose - would agree with the way currenly recorded,
I too have a league that says one pitch = complete inning pitched, but that is for eligibility rules, (ie 3 innings game max, 6 innings a week) which is clearly not a standard ASA MLB NFSH etc type standard .FTMSupport wrote:Pitched for stats purposes is very clearly defined as 1 out = 1/3 of an inning pitched. It does not matter if 1 batter is faced to make that out, or 50 batters.
I am good with keeping some off book stats if they are league specific
Re: Skipping batter & recording an out
out of curiosity, I dug into the May 20 game with Houston a bit more.. (RE: batter skipped and called out b/c another batter batted out of order) .. I thought a reasonable guideline of how to score a similar situation ... skipped batter called out. the reason batter skipped/called out may be a bit different in different scenarios (skipped, sick, no show, ejected, etc - aka league rule) but the statistical effect could/should be the same.
in the MLB scenario which i think would be good for iScore to mimic as a default....
* Batter Skipped is out, and credited with an official at bat (ouch),
* Pitcher credited with facing the batter, and a 1/3 inning
* Catcher gets credited with a put out (yes that is MLB approach)
* No errors assigned (if wondering).
(by the way in the Houston game, the batter called out was Matsui. the batter who batted out of turn was Bourn , who had reached on a single before the issue was challenged. The single was removed and Umps sent batter ( Bourn) back to bat where he ended up reaching first with a base on balls walk and scored run later that inning. Jason Kendell the catcher got the put out. Pitcher got credited with the 1/3 inning faced batter )
in the MLB scenario which i think would be good for iScore to mimic as a default....
* Batter Skipped is out, and credited with an official at bat (ouch),
* Pitcher credited with facing the batter, and a 1/3 inning
* Catcher gets credited with a put out (yes that is MLB approach)
* No errors assigned (if wondering).
(by the way in the Houston game, the batter called out was Matsui. the batter who batted out of turn was Bourn , who had reached on a single before the issue was challenged. The single was removed and Umps sent batter ( Bourn) back to bat where he ended up reaching first with a base on balls walk and scored run later that inning. Jason Kendell the catcher got the put out. Pitcher got credited with the 1/3 inning faced batter )
Last edited by OhioTex on Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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FTMSupport
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Re: Skipping batter & recording an out
Wow, so in the case of a batter being injured at the beginning of a game and having his at bat skipped for the rest of the game , he's going to get creditted with an at bat and out 2 or 3 times during the game. That's really adding insult to injury! 
Re: Skipping batter & recording an out
I compelety agree with OhioTex's post.
1) Depending on what league/tournament you are playing i.e. High School, USSSA, AAU, Nations, Triple Crown, etc.... each comes with different pitching limitations. As OhioTex pointed out, some league rules are 1 pitch = 1 inning regardless of how many outs are recorded. So for some tournament purposes your pitcher could throw 50 pitches in innings 1-3 and 1 pitch in inning 4 (and recorded no outs) and be considered pitching 4 innings. I would never expect your software to be at that point yet, and that is a different topic anyhow. Perhaps that's where adding a note to the player could come in handy.
2) If a batter is ejected they are scored an out and charged an at-bat - correct. This is punishment to the batter/runner and their stat's are effected accordingly (if there are no eligible subsititues). Pitcher is credited with the 1/3 inning and the out. You might only see this once in an entire season happen to one particular pitcher. In fact the stat's for that pitcher look better in that situation because you have less total pitches thrown/batters faced. Yes, the catcher gets the put out for fielding stat's.
3) However if the batter is injured, and in the case of some youth play when you are batting the entire line up (so you can't sub) the batter is not out and is not charged an at bat. The pitcher would not be credited with the batter faced, inning etc... the line up would just shift up and the injured player could not return to the game. If you are playing with subs you just sub for the injured player and the game goes on.
1) Depending on what league/tournament you are playing i.e. High School, USSSA, AAU, Nations, Triple Crown, etc.... each comes with different pitching limitations. As OhioTex pointed out, some league rules are 1 pitch = 1 inning regardless of how many outs are recorded. So for some tournament purposes your pitcher could throw 50 pitches in innings 1-3 and 1 pitch in inning 4 (and recorded no outs) and be considered pitching 4 innings. I would never expect your software to be at that point yet, and that is a different topic anyhow. Perhaps that's where adding a note to the player could come in handy.
2) If a batter is ejected they are scored an out and charged an at-bat - correct. This is punishment to the batter/runner and their stat's are effected accordingly (if there are no eligible subsititues). Pitcher is credited with the 1/3 inning and the out. You might only see this once in an entire season happen to one particular pitcher. In fact the stat's for that pitcher look better in that situation because you have less total pitches thrown/batters faced. Yes, the catcher gets the put out for fielding stat's.
3) However if the batter is injured, and in the case of some youth play when you are batting the entire line up (so you can't sub) the batter is not out and is not charged an at bat. The pitcher would not be credited with the batter faced, inning etc... the line up would just shift up and the injured player could not return to the game. If you are playing with subs you just sub for the injured player and the game goes on.
Re: Skipping batter & recording an out
, the fact that a ohiostate buckeye fan and a florida gator fan (i presume) can agree on anything is itself worthy of a thread 
on the injury situation, agree 100%. you need to be able to skip a batter with no penalty many times in little league. i score already covers that situation and the stats completely i believe.
That said, we did have a game where we took an auto out for an injury. We were short handed to start with (down 1 out), and playing a lesser team, we played with 8, and were in the lead but lost one more due to injury/flu in late inning (thankfully), (so down to 7 aka 1 outfielder). We were allowed to take the 2 auto outs when they came to bat and not have to forfeit. (actually never had an inning with 2 auto outs, we did not have to use our last at bats) .anyway , we still took home the W.
on the injury situation, agree 100%. you need to be able to skip a batter with no penalty many times in little league. i score already covers that situation and the stats completely i believe.
That said, we did have a game where we took an auto out for an injury. We were short handed to start with (down 1 out), and playing a lesser team, we played with 8, and were in the lead but lost one more due to injury/flu in late inning (thankfully), (so down to 7 aka 1 outfielder). We were allowed to take the 2 auto outs when they came to bat and not have to forfeit. (actually never had an inning with 2 auto outs, we did not have to use our last at bats) .anyway , we still took home the W.
Re: Skipping batter & recording an out
OhioTex, you got me nailed. I am part of the Gator Nation. You know they say Superman's children sleep under Tim Tebow sheets. Oh, that's something not intented for this forum so I won't mention that or the past (3) National Titles. Ooops, sorry.
Anyhow, going back to my original post, the out was not shown on the scorecard and the pitcher was not credited the out. Something to keep in the back of your mind when the tournament director is asking for pitch counts/outs/innings or whatever.
I'll let FTM research if the pitcher should be credited with the out or not. I'm sure they have more resources than I. In my humble opinion, the pitcher should.
Anyhow, going back to my original post, the out was not shown on the scorecard and the pitcher was not credited the out. Something to keep in the back of your mind when the tournament director is asking for pitch counts/outs/innings or whatever.
I'll let FTM research if the pitcher should be credited with the out or not. I'm sure they have more resources than I. In my humble opinion, the pitcher should.