http://iscoresports.com/

This suggestion is a follow on to my post in the issues forum relating to multiple batters shown in the score card for a batting slot during the first inning of a game.

I would suggest that a fix for this problem would be to allow a game to start without batters identified. The user could indicate how many batters are in the lineup but not assign players to the slots. Then as the game progresses the user can fill in the batting order as the players come up to the plate or enter the on deck circle using the offensive substitution window. If a batter is not assigned as a batting position comes up to bat, iScore should pop up the offensive substitution window with a nice little reminder that a batter needs to be assigned.

I believe with this enhancement the score card will be cleaned up significantly in the case where batting lineup is not known prior to the start of the game.

-phil

As noted in the other thread, if you are seeing the changes on the scorecard, then you are using offensive substitutions and not actually modifying the starting lineup.

FTMSupport wrote:As noted in the other thread, if you are seeing the changes on the scorecard, then you are using offensive substitutions and not actually modifying the starting lineup.

Yes that is correct but that doesn't change the fact that the result is a score card which is unnecessarily difficult to interpret. Implementing this request will solve that problem. Again, to emphasize, the starting lineup is NOT KNOWN prior to the first batter coming to bat so substitutions are required get the correct order - thus leading to multiple batters in a batting position for the first inning.

We are not sure where we are being unclear here. After the game has started, you can tap Misc -> Show Starting Lineup at any time. When you make a change to the starting lineup using this method, the scorecard does not get difficult to interpret. It will show the players that are in the starting lineup correctly. You can tap Misc -> Show Starting Lineup and make the change when you see who is in the on deck circle. This way you do NOT use the Offensive Substitutions and scorecard will remain clean.

You have an interesting suggestion for future user interface using pop up prompts that Iscore does not do today. Think that can be a future idea but only as a user option. An option to ask to be prompted to enter player info as you go - (until through the order once or perhaps the whole game) . But with option to turn off - for more advanced users .


As it works today, the score card is VERY clean -- once you understand and use the starting line up screen and substitution screens as intended. ( there are training videos on this). Many score games with no clue player name, number or position to start. Often not even sure how many will bat, 9,10, roster etc. and the score cards come out perfect. I start with quick roster and Then the procedure is to edit the starting line up with information when it becomes known as you go , ( misc > show starting line up while scorning or after game using pitch by pitch editor, game starts, starting line up)

Basically the computer puts a placeholder name ( ie player 1) on each score card row when you use quick roster. Then when you edit the line up, you are basically editing the placeholder name and number of what you see in the scorecard row. ( your prompt idea could work in same way) It does not add players , just retypes the info . The computer has a unique ID for the spot in the order and does not care how many times you edit the human display of info. Pre during or post game . It just retypes on scorecard

Now if you do a substitution,( instead of editing starting line up) it thinks you want to add and remove a player to the game and it adds the new player on scorecard row under the starter. Very normal, and shows inning sub made.

All of this " human readable stuff" substitutions in/out and starting line up and roster names can be cleaned up POST game in pitch by pitch editor. For old games you gave scored. As it does not impact the game flow logic . But does impact human readability and who gets credited w what stats - it is a part of post game edit capabilities

Hope this helps you better understand how to maximize use of program today

also hope FTM puts on the list for future consideration ( not sure priority) the notion of an optional user interface idea for more prompting as players come to bat .( I will add advanced users often ask for less prompting, and hence the notion , as done with other prompts, make a user option preference setting)

OhioTex wrote:You have an interesting suggestion for future user interface using pop up prompts that Iscore does not do today. Think that can be a future idea but only as a user option. An option to ask to be prompted to enter player info as you go - (until through the order once or perhaps the whole game) . But with option to turn off - for more advanced users .

OhioTex,

Thanks for the support. I understand the current procedure for setting a batting order but it is cumbersome and time consuming. Please see my next post for a much more detailed explanation. Hopefully iScore can be enhanced to make batting orders easier for everyone, not just advanced users.

-phil

FTMSupport wrote:We are not sure where we are being unclear here. After the game has started, you can tap Misc -> Show Starting Lineup at any time. When you make a change to the starting lineup using this method, the scorecard does not get difficult to interpret. It will show the players that are in the starting lineup correctly. You can tap Misc -> Show Starting Lineup and make the change when you see who is in the on deck circle. This way you do NOT use the Offensive Substitutions and scorecard will remain clean.

I'll explain the reason that I use the offensive substitution and perhaps my question/motivation will become more reasonable.

I use offensive substitution to set up the batting order because it is a fast method to make those changes. Let's look at a very possible situation to explain my reasoning.

It's the start of a game, I know that 9 batters will bat so I set up a starting line up of 9 batters, not sure who will bat or in what order. First batter approaches the plate so I use the substitution window to select the correct player. He manages to get to 1st. Batter 2 comes to the plate so I again substitute to select the correct player. This batter puts the ball in play, let's say a shallow line drive to right field. Batter 1 moves to second, Batter 2 is thrown out at first. Batter 1 advances to third on the throw.

I have to wait until the play finishes to start scoring. Everyone is familiar with the processes, but it takes a number of presses to input all of the action going through a number of different screens. While I am doing this the third batter has approached the plate and his first pitch is imminent. I quickly select the correct batter from the roster using the offensive substitution and am ready to go. Changing the batting order with offensive substitution takes exactly three actions (or presses, whatever you want to call them):
1) press the batter icon to open the offensive substitution window
2) select the correct batter
3) press save
It also has the benefit of not changing the number of batters, so I don't have to worry about having extra batters when I get back to the top of the order.

Now let's say I use the starting line up to make these changes. To change a player in the starting line up I have perform several actions:

1) press MISC
2) press Show Starting Line up
3) If that batter is not already selected as an active batter, which is very likely since I have no knowledge of who is batting before hand, I select the correct batter to open the Player Info window.
4) Select Yes in the Batting options
5) Press Save
6) Slide the correct batter into the position, which is not always perfect if I am rushing to catch up to the action, meaning the new player could be one position off in the order and I have to move him again.
7) Press Done.

So we've gone from 3 actions (all of which are presses) using the offensive substitutions to 7 actions (including 1 slide which can be problematic). All the while action is progressing on the field. While I've had my head buried in my tablet trying to make my changes the first pitch may have been thrown to the next batter. I look up and see a strike on the scoreboard but don't know if it is called or swinging. Even worse something may have happened on the base path and a runner has moved. Now I have to try to figure out what happened (stolen base, passed ball, balk) and score that. Adding to the problems with the starting line up is that as batters are designated as batting, a corresponding batter is not automatically deselected, meaning the number of batters necessarily increases. Once the ninth batter comes up to bat I have to go back into the starting line up and repeat steps 3-5 above for each of the batters who were replaced in the starting line up and aren't hitting, again taking my focus off of the game for a while. This could happen for up to 9 players and must be done before the lead off batter can be scored for his second at bat.

In the end the complicated nature of setting up the starting line up makes it time consuming and increases the potential of missing an action, thus messing up the scoring.

So my solution is to use the more efficient offensive substitution process. What I was hoping was, after a game was complete I could go back to change the starting line up one time, when there is no action to miss, and have the program recreate the play-by-play and score cards to comprehend the real line up thus removing extraneous substitutions added by my process.

I guess my real problem is the inefficient method of creating a starting line up which is exasperated by the necessity to designate players as batters - a cumbersome process itself. I propose that iScore be enhanced by eliminating the batting designation.

What is the purpose of designating players at batters? Is it simply a way to determine how many batters there will be? If so then there has to be a better, less time consuming process to achieve that goal. I suggest that at the beginning of a game there be an option to select how many batters the home and visitor teams will bat, then the app would select the first N players from the starting line up as the batting roster where N is the number selected earlier. If the lineup is not correct the user can adjust the starting lineup as described above, but eliminating steps 3 through 5, shortening the process from 7 steps to 4. The problem I see with that is that the scorer may not know how many batters there will be when the game starts. For this case the scorer should have the option of selecting "unknown" for the number of batters.

In the case of an unknown number of batters the game starts with the batting order copied from the line up. For every batter after the ninth batter a dialog box would open asking "Is the lead-off batting position up to bat?". If the answer is yes than the previous batter was the last batter and now you know how many batters to use. If the answer is no then add one more to the batting lineup and ask the question on the next batter.

Of course the ultimate time saving process would be to eliminate the batting designation and create a starting line up process which does not require sliding players around, only presses similar to the offensive substitution process. I can press buttons like a mad man, but make me slide something on the screen and my progress slows to a crawl.

I hope you'll consider this proposal seriously. I know it would require some major changes to the app but it would make iScore easier for me to use and I think a better product for everyone.

-phil

Phil

So you know how to use the product as designed ( use starting line up ... not substitution ) but choose not to. Thanks for making that clear. The cluttered score card is then by your choice and you can weigh the pro /cons the cost/benefit of your current approach

Suggesting a improvement idea ( prompts) is helpful .saying the program is flawed for cluttered outcome on the scorecard when you are choosing to not follow the recommended process is not as helpful.


{user edit: Yes I understand much of how Iscore uses the starting players, it is more than 'how many are batting' it assigns each batter an underlying unique ID that relates player to batting order position in that game to associate game actions to players .. Allowing you to edit the human readable information or sub in /out player or change the place in starting order as needed, to associate game actions to player }

OhioTex wrote:Phil
Suggesting a improvement idea ( prompts) is helpful .saying the program is flawed for cluttered outcome on the scorecard when you are choosing to not follow the recommended process is not as helpful.

OhioTex,

Do you understand how iScore operates, with respect to utilizing the "Batting" designation in the starting line up? Is that used solely to determine how many batters are in the line up, or is there another use for that information? If batters are declared in the starting line up only to know how many are batting then it seems to me that same information can be learned with one simple question at the start of the game or through prompts as I suggested above.

-phil

It is not used to determine how many batters there are, it is used to determine who is in the starting batting lineup.

We have received your suggestion and will consider it for future enhancements.

In the meantime, you can try using iScore the way it was designed to be used and your scorecards will look clean. Or you can continue doing offensive substitutions instead and getting the results you are getting.