Picked off caught stealing or both?

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Ef2255
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Picked off caught stealing or both?

Post by Ef2255 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:35 pm

Runner is on first and gets picked off by the pitcher to first as he takes off too early for second and is subsequently thrown out at second by the throw from 1b to ss. I originally scored the play as a pick off 1-3-6. But looking at the box score they scored it as a pick off of 1st and a caught stealing at second. I have gone back & changed it to a caught stealing but don't know if this is correct either. How do I score this in Iscore since we are given only 1 choice or am I missing something? Any assistance will be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance.
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mprusak
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Re: Picked off caught stealing or both?

Post by mprusak » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:02 pm

If runner breaks for next base, I believe it is correct to record it as caught stealing.
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FTMSupport
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Re: Picked off caught stealing or both?

Post by FTMSupport » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:04 pm

According to MLB rules http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/of ... rer_10.jsp in the section about steals:

10.07 Stolen Bases And Caught Stealing
...
(h) The official scorer shall charge a runner as "caught stealing" if such runner is put out, or would have been put out by errorless play, when such runner
(1) tries to steal;
(2) is picked off a base and tries to advance (any move toward the next base shall be considered an attempt to advance); or


So if the runner dives back and is tagged out, it is a pick off (not caught stealing).

If the runner breaks for second, it is a caught stealing (not a pickoff).

There is not a situation where both pick off and caught stealing would come into play that we have found in the rules. It is one or the other.
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Ef2255
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Re: Picked off caught stealing or both?

Post by Ef2255 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:50 pm

Thank you Mark and FTMsupport for both clarifying and replying so quickly to my post. Even the announcers were confused since they called the runner picked off which is why I originally scored it this way. But upon further reflection after reading the box score and the play by play at Espn.com they called it a caught stealing thus why I changed it. Why it appears as both in the box score is very confusing. Thank you again and especially for posting the MLB rule.
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grstatdoc
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Re: Picked off caught stealing or both?

Post by grstatdoc » Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:43 pm

MLB uses picked off and caught stealing as a play descriptor (Adams picked off and caught stealing second, p to 1b to ss). The official stat is a CS, but PO (although not an official stat) is recorded to show how the play started and is thus reflected in the box score and play by play.

Perhaps using the 1-3-6 and CS in the play (and adding a note about a pickoff) would be the best way to proceed.
EMS-Medic
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Re: Picked off caught stealing or both?

Post by EMS-Medic » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:08 pm

I would like to revive this thread.

After reviewing, it appears MLB does in fact use picked off/caught stealing.

See: https://www.mlb.com/gameday/red-sox-vs- ... ame=531135

Bottom 5th Inning - 2 Out
Runner on 1st is Picked off 1st base and Caught Stealing Second base.

Note the following in the stats:

Runner (12 Brock Holt) - Credited with a Caught Stealing
Runner (12 Brock Holt) - Credited with being Picked off

Pitcher (56 Ryan Borucki) - Credited with a Pickoff

The play-by-player reports as follows:
With Sandy Leon batting, Brock Holt picked off and caught stealing 2nd base, pitcher Ryan Borucki to first baseman Justin Smoak to shortstop Aledmys Diaz. 3 out

For further details, baseball-reference indicates:
Baserunning
SB: Eduardo Nunez (6, 2nd base off Ryan Borucki/Russell Martin).
CS: Brock Holt (4, 2nd base by Ryan Borucki POCS).
...
Pickoffs: Ryan Borucki (1; Brock Holt, 2nd base (CS)).
...
t5 4-4 2 1-- 1,(0-0) O BOS Sandy Leon Ryan Borucki Holt Caught Stealing (PO) 2B (P-1B-SS)

Although picked off may not be an official stat for the runner, it IS a stat for the pitcher.

The only way I can complete this at the moment is to charge as CS (Caught Stealing) then manually edit the stats to add a Successful Pickoff for the pitcher?

Has there been plans to implement the POCS (Picked Off/Caught Stealing) in iScore?

Thank you,
EMS-Medic
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Re: Picked off caught stealing or both?

Post by EMS-Medic » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:14 pm

*BTT*

This situation occurred again in a game on 15.04.2019 TOR vs MIN - T.Hernandez was credited with a Picked Off Caught Stealing in the Top of the 6th inning.

Any plans to implement this or any other workarounds?

Thank you
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