Who gets the error?

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barkmo
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Who gets the error?

Post by barkmo » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:05 am

Runner on 1st stealing. Throw from catcher not perfect but skips before it gets to F6. F6 should at least knock the ball down but doesn't, F4 is in proper backup position but ball gets past him also. Runner gets to third. My thought is that F6 and F4 actions are more of a mental or lack of hustle error not keeping the ball in front of them and not an official error. I gave the error to F2 but am receiving different opinions on the play.
What's your thoughts?
barkmo
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Re: Who gets the error?

Post by barkmo » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:09 am

oops, should have posted under rules section.
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jcbeckman
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Re: Who gets the error?

Post by jcbeckman » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:13 am

Hard to say without seeing the play. The "ordinary effort" standard is hard to judge via text. When you say "F6 should at least knock down the ball" that sounds like you think that was an ordinary effort that didn't happen, and that allowed the runner to get to third. Was the throw so bad that the runner would have made 3rd even if F6 knocks down the ball? If not, then F6 gets the error.
barkmo
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Re: Who gets the error?

Post by barkmo » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:36 am

To me the question is "ordinary effort" for a 13yo. In the majors if a fielder throws a ball in the dirt he gets the error although most maor league first basemen make the scoop catch 70-80% of the time. That is why I scored it as E2. Although I told the coach I would like to give all three a third of an error each.
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SteelCityB
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Re: Who gets the error?

Post by SteelCityB » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:16 am

IMO, the MLB rules protect catchers in this case, but only to the point that the runner does not advance an extra base. If the throw is "wild", and the runner doesn't advance beyond the stolen base, it is simply a stolen base. If the throw is "wild", and the runner advances an extra base, then it is a stolen base with an error on the catcher. The other fielders' efforts aren't even considered.

In your opinion, was it a wild throw? I'm rough on kids, so I consider anything in the dirt as being "wild" haha.
Camerabry
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Re: Who gets the error?

Post by Camerabry » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:27 am

Isn't it normal for a catcher to one hop the ball to the short stop? Advancing to second would get an error to the short stop. Advancing to 3rd would be an error on the second baseman. If the runner would have stolen the base and made it in time anyway I'd just give the error to second base.
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SteelCityB
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Re: Who gets the error?

Post by SteelCityB » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:49 am

I guess that's why the official baseball rules use the term "wild". Leaves it up to interpretation. You need to determine if the throw is wild.

But my post above is my take on rule 10.12(a)(5) ...

The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder whose wild throw permits a runner to reach a base safely, when in the scorer’s judgment a good throw would have put out the runner, unless such wild throw is made attempting to prevent a stolen base;

and rule 10.12(d)(1) ...

The official scorer shall not charge an error against the catcher when the catcher, after receiving the pitch, makes a wild throw attempting to prevent a stolen base, unless the wild throw permits the stealing runner to advance one or more extra bases or permits any other runner to advance one or more bases;
barkmo
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Re: Who gets the error?

Post by barkmo » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:53 am

I don't think you give anyone an error on the runner getting to 2B. Give the runner the SB.

Cam - that is the coaches argument also. I still go with the E2 because the SS would have to have either made a nice scoop on the short hop or blocked it with his body. Not "ordinary effort" for 13yo.
danmcc
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Re: Who gets the error?

Post by danmcc » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:12 pm

It's a judgement call and we weren't there, but at 13 they aren't pee wees anymore. If the ss could have or should have knocked it down e6. If he stuck his glove out there but turned his head, e6.
Camerabry
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Re: Who gets the error?

Post by Camerabry » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:44 am

So if you don't think anyone gets an error on runner going to second, then the error should be given to whomever allowed the player to go to third. To me that would be the second baseman.
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