Fielders Choice or Hit (responded)

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Chrisandjayson
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:20 pm

Re: Fielders Choice or Hit

Postby Chrisandjayson » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:55 pm

I appreciate the dialogue above as I've had the same question.

My confusion is caused by the language in 10.05.a.4:
The official scorer shall credit a batter with a base hit when:
(4) the batter reaches first base safely on a fair ball that has not been touched by a fielder and that is in fair territory when the ball reaches the outfield, unless in the scorer's judgment the ball could have been handled with ordinary effort;

Why the language abt reaching the outfield or what is the scenario?

Originally I thought this justified a hit even when runner from first is forced out at second by outfielder. But I guess 10.05.b takes precedence.
mitcharf
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Location: Austin, TX

Re: Fielders Choice or Hit

Postby mitcharf » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:42 pm

OhioTex wrote:ASA, (emphasis added)

ASA Rule Book wrote:Rule 11 Scoring
...
Section 3. A BASE HIT shall not be scored:
A. When a runner is forced out on a batted ball or would have been forced out except for a fielding error.
B. When a player fielding a batted ball retires a preceding runner with ordinary effort.
C. When a fielder fails in an attempt to retire a preceding runner and, in the scorer’s judgment, the batter-runner could have been retired at first base.
D. When a batter reaches first base safely as a result of a preceding runner being called out for interfering with a batted or thrown ball, or with a defensive player.



I know this is an old thread, but reading it made me think of a question. I've quoted just the ASA rule above, because that's what I normally score, although it looks like the same question would apply given the MLB rules.

You have a slow runner on first base, and the batter hits a routine roller up the third base line. The third baseman reaches the ball in plenty of time to retire the runner at second base, but with no chance to retire the speedy batter at first base.

1) They field it cleanly and throw to second to force out the runner.
By part A of this rule, the batter does not get a hit.

2) The ball deflects off the glove of the third baseman.
Again by part A, the batter does not get a hit, because only the fielding error prevented the force out.

My question arises in the third scenario:

3) The third baseman fields the ball cleanly but makes an errant throw to second base.
In THIS case, it does not seem like part A applies (since it was a throwing error rather than a fielding error), nor does part C apply (because they had no play on the batter). So in this case, it goes as a hit? I'm trying to see the logic behind why a fielding error means no hit, but a throwing error means they get a hit. Any ideas?
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OhioTex
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Re: Fielders Choice or Hit

Postby OhioTex » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:55 pm

I think you are over reading into the phrase 'fielding error'.. if the only reason you are saying is because throwing vs fielding a ground ball. Still an error. the runner from first survives at second because of a fielder’s error.
mitcharf
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Location: Austin, TX

Re: Fielders Choice or Hit

Postby mitcharf » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:39 pm

OhioTex wrote:I think you are over reading into the phrase 'fielding error'.. if the only reason you are saying is because throwing vs fielding a ground ball. Still an error. the runner from first survives at second because of a fielder’s error.


Fair enough. Thank you for the reply. I think you are right.

One more question that occurs to me.

Scenario: Runner on second base. The left fielder is playing very shallow. The speedy batter hits a grounder between the shortstop and third baseman, which the left fielder cleanly fields. The left fielder has no possible play on the batter, but the runner broke for third when the ball was hit. The runner is not particularly fast, and the left fielder has the ball in plenty of time to make an easy play at third base.

Situations:

1) The left fielder throws to third where the runner is tagged out.
It seems to me that this falls into category B -- the player retired a preceding runner with ordinary effort.

2) The left fielder makes an errant throw to third base, and the runner is safe.
This doesn't fall into category B, since the runner was not retired. This doesn't fall into category A, because it is not a force out. And it doesn't call into category C, because the batter could not have been retired at first base.

So this is a base hit? It seems weird (to me) to award a base hit only because of an error on a routine play, when (absent the error) we would not award the hit. Any ideas on the logic here?

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