Bases Loaded Less Than Two Outs Question

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SK3000
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Bases Loaded Less Than Two Outs Question

Post by SK3000 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:29 am

I have a situation in a game with the bases loaded and nobody out, ball is grounded to the shortstop with the infield in and he can't make the play. Two runs score on the play. I assume the first run is earned because even if he fields the ball and probably would have gotten the throw to home, you can't guarantee he would have gotten the out at the plate right?

The reason is I have the batter getting an RBI for the first run because it occurred with less than two out so if the batter has an RBI on the play, you assume that run is earned regardless right?

Also of note the second run in the inning goes down as unearned regardless since the next three batters were out anyway so he would have been stuck at third base had the error not occured.
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FTMSupport
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Re: Bases Loaded Less Than Two Outs Question

Post by FTMSupport » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:00 am

RBI does not automatically assume earned. If there are two outs and the next batter reaches base because of error, and the next two batters are walked (loading the bases) and the next batter hits a home run, that batter gets 4 RBI but none of the runs are earned.

Earned runs are determined by whether the runs would have scored if no errors were made in the inning.

In your situation, it sounds like the first run was earned and the second only scored because of the error on the shortstop? If that is the case, then the second run is unearned.

Although, you are saying the next THREE batters made outs... if the second runner would have scored on a fielder's choice by one of the other batters, then it is still an earned run. You have to reconstruct the inning in your mind as if no errors were made to determine earned vs unearned.
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OhioTex
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Re: Bases Loaded Less Than Two Outs Question

Post by OhioTex » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:19 am

(update: agree with support, great examples , i was going to add...)

Scorekeeper has to see the play and make judgement calls.

the governing thoughts would be

First, For errors, it is the official scorer’s judgment, if a fielder at that position for that level of play, making ordinary effort would have fielded ball and retired a runner or not.

Second, credit the batter with a RBI for every run that scores unaided by an error and as part of a play begun by the batter’s safe hit , Walk, sacrifice, or fielder’s choice, with less than 2 outs and error is made, an RBI is credited if runner from third base ordinarily would have scored

third, For earned runs, the official scorer shall reconstruct the inning without the benefit of errors and passed balls , giving the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher in determining which bases would have been reached by runners had there been errorless play.
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SK3000
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Re: Bases Loaded Less Than Two Outs Question

Post by SK3000 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:28 am

FTMSupport wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:00 am
RBI does not automatically assume earned. If there are two outs and the next batter reaches base because of error, and the next two batters are walked (loading the bases) and the next batter hits a home run, that batter gets 4 RBI but none of the runs are earned.

Earned runs are determined by whether the runs would have scored if no errors were made in the inning.

In your situation, it sounds like the first run was earned and the second only scored because of the error on the shortstop? If that is the case, then the second run is unearned.

Although, you are saying the next THREE batters made outs... if the second runner would have scored on a fielder's choice by one of the other batters, then it is still an earned run. You have to reconstruct the inning in your mind as if no errors were made to determine earned vs unearned.
The next three at-bats went like this.

Strikeout
Strikeout
5-3

So regardless the second runner would have not scored if he was stuck at third base.
SK3000
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Re: Bases Loaded Less Than Two Outs Question

Post by SK3000 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:08 am

FTMSupport wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:00 am

In your situation, it sounds like the first run was earned and the second only scored because of the error on the shortstop? If that is the case, then the second run is unearned.
Although, in the situation there's a good chance if he fields the ball and throws home which would have been the play since the infield is in, he probably would have gotten the guy out at home on the force out.
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OhioTex
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Re: Bases Loaded Less Than Two Outs Question

Post by OhioTex » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:16 am

SK3000 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:08 am
FTMSupport wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:00 am

In your situation, it sounds like the first run was earned and the second only scored because of the error on the shortstop? If that is the case, then the second run is unearned.
Although, in the situation there's a good chance if he fields the ball and throws home which would have been the play since the infield is in, he probably would have gotten the guy out at home on the force out.
you saw the play... and have to make the judgement calls on the specific situation.

based on your first post .. you positioned the first run as RBI , so one would infer from that, you assessed that the runner from third would have ordinarily scored. (so RBI and Earned run). However, If scorekeeper assessment is the runner from third (or any runner for that matter) would have been out except for the error, then no RBI run unearned. (FYI - iscore has a game setting option " advance mode" that enables a prompt on an error to say if runner would have been out or not due to the error )

depending on your assessment of the error, the first run could be RBI and earned (or no RBI and Unearned).

As i posted earlier, i would first focus on the error, then the RBI then lastly reconstruct the inning .
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