Appeal on leaving base early on caught fly ball

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ixamnis
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Appeal on leaving base early on caught fly ball

Post by ixamnis » Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:08 pm

Using a droid phone, college softball game, One out, runner at second. Left fielder catches batters fly ball. Runner attempts to tag and run to third but is called out on appeal for leaving second base too early. I scored it initially as batter out on fly ball to left field. when asked what happened to runner on second I entered "out at second, left base early". (seemed the best option even though I knew it was more softball related for jumping off the bag too soon on a pitch.) But I ended up short one put out credited at the end of the game and it seemed to be this play. So looking at previous posts I went back to pitch by pitch and edited this out as "Other" out and noted it was an appeal for leaving second base early. Now I have the right amount of put outs, but the put out was credited to the catcher! On an appeal like that who is supposed to get credit for the out? I figured it would either be the shortstop or the second baseman. They were closest to the play. Is there also an assist?
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OhioTex
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Re: Appeal on leaving base early on caught fly ball

Post by OhioTex » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:02 pm

agree, the put out to the player "closest to the play" who ever is covering 2nd base.. 2nd or ss,

To fix it post game, you can manually override the stats for players by following the instructions here:

http://iscoresports.com/baseball/kb/faq ... _edits.php
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ixamnis
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Re: Appeal on leaving base early on caught fly ball

Post by ixamnis » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:37 pm

Official scorekeeper gave the put out to the left fielder. Listed as special circumstances double play. Left fielder got two put outs on the one play.
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OhioTex
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Re: Appeal on leaving base early on caught fly ball

Post by OhioTex » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:56 am

Ok, lets discuss more.. Not how to enter in iScore but who deserves the put out credit

Re reading your post. I see you diid not describe , how the apeal was executed. I assume left fielder throw to 2b after catching the ball to 'appeal' the leave early..

I am not at a place to access my college softball scoreing rules ( rule 14). but ..In official baseball rules, the rule citations are clear 10.09 for put outs and 10.10 for assists.
Specifically 10.09.a.2 for appeal put out and 10.10.a.1 for assist

If the appeal was in the normal course of play . Eg fly ball Lf, LF throw to 2B . Credit put out 1 to LF and then assit to LF and put out two to 2B

Edit: ncaa softball rule citation 14.19.3.2..
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ixamnis
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Re: Appeal on leaving base early on caught fly ball

Post by ixamnis » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:46 am

OhioTex wrote:Ok, lets discuss more.. Not how to enter in iScore but who deserves the put out credit

Re reading your post. I see you diid not describe , how the apeal was executed. I assume left fielder throw to 2b after catching the ball to 'appeal' the leave early..

This was interesting to me. I also thought to appeal you had to get the ball to the pitcher and then she had to throw to the base in question. However on this play, the ball was thrown in to third base by the left fielder after she caught it in an attempt to get the runner. When that wasn't successful the ball went back to the pitcher. Then the home plate umpire announced "You are appealing the runner leaving early at second. She did and she's out." I assumed the catcher, coach or other player asked for the appeal. There wasn't therefore a throw to second by anyone and who would have been covering the base if there had been? Shortstop or Second baseman? Hence the second put out goes to the left fielder?

Which also leads to the question of umpire mechanics on who's call was it? This was an NAIA college game and there were only two umpires, who is supposed to be watching the catch and who is supposed to be watching the base?

It would appear the left fielder on a deep fly ball gets an unassisted double play. I will wait a day or two before following your instructions to correct this in my iscore though.
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grstatdoc
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Re: Appeal on leaving base early on caught fly ball

Post by grstatdoc » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:41 am

NCAA SB rules do allow for a dead ball appeal (7.1.2.2), which is a verbal appeal.

Scoring the out credited on such appeal is governed by the following:

14.12.3 In all other appeals, credit the fielder closest to the misplay with the putout.
(Incorrect batter and incorrect lineup card, 14.12.1 and 14.12.2 are credited to the catcher)

14.19.3 Credit a putout to the nearest fielder in the following instances: ...
... 14.19.3.9 A runner is out when a proper appeal is made on a missed base or home plate.

I'd submit that crediting the out to the LF is an improper application of the above (either the SS or 2B would be credited as the nearest fielder). Also, because of the nature of this appeal, there is no assist possible
ixamnis
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Re: Appeal on leaving base early on caught fly ball

Post by ixamnis » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:29 am

I was finally able to ask the lady who does the scorekeeping for my daughter's college team about it even though she wasn't the official scorekeeper for that game. She was perplexed too about how 2 put outs were given to the left fielder but she wasn't sure how she would have decided between the second baseman and the shortstop on that play to give the second out to. And if she had, she thought the left fielder would have an assist. I'd like to say she was going to look it up, but she's pretty busy with other things and I'm guessing is satisfied with leaving it to the home team's scorekeeper's decision for that day.

Which leads me to how does one get an NCAA SB rule book with scorekeeping rules also?

What little searching I've done on line has not proved too fruitful. I recall the NAIA softball site says it uses NCAA SB rules with the exception to the NAIA modifications. So what I really need is an NCAA softball rule book and the NAIA modifications listed and then scorekeeping rules too. Anyone have a suggestion where to locate that? I'd rather have the hard copy to thumb through. I am of an age where trying to page through things on line is too frustrating.
PetroGuy
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Re: Appeal on leaving base early on caught fly ball

Post by PetroGuy » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:13 pm

This site appears to have both online and purchasable hard copy editions of NCAA Softball rules.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4319- ... rules.aspx
Check out the iScore documentation page!
Includes videos and user manual.
http://iscoresports.com/baseball/training.php#docs
ixamnis
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Re: Appeal on leaving base early on caught fly ball

Post by ixamnis » Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:51 pm

Thanks, I had found that site after I posted my query. I did the free download but seems to be too cumbersome to look through that way. For example where do you find the rule that if the catcher throws to an open base while a batter is batting, it counts as a ball in the pitch count?

Saw this happen last week. Batter has a 3-1 count and foul tips the ball into the catcher's glove. Catcher hangs on to it and thinking it is the third strike instead of the second fires it down to the first baseman. Should have been ball 4 then and batter takes her base. Umpire missed it though and the batting team was so far ahead the coach didn't want to press the issue. Next pitch was a ball and the batter walked anyway. Between innings coach and umpire talk and umpire admits he missed the call. But did he? Did the first baseman need to be standing on the bag for it to be called a ball? I didn't look hard for the rule and will try again. Is that a rule in baseball too? Does it involve delay of game?
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OhioTex
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Re: Appeal on leaving base early on caught fly ball

Post by OhioTex » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:08 am

Been on hiatus ( or just busy w new seasons)

On original thread.. I agree with grstatdoc post .(actually think all our posts are in agreement)

I would have given the apeal put put out to 2B. As player nearest over short stop. Assuming 2b covers second on balls to left while ss covers on balls to right.. And also easy to say 2b is second basemen bag..

On a new point. Last post raised.. ... I have read many a rule book for different age levels and associations and scored many a game .. But can not recall ever hearing of a major rule body adding a ball to a batters count, for a throw down to an open base assuming it was strike three. And not sure why throw to first, a strike out usually prompts an around the horn to third if bases empty.. I have seen some leagues bann the around the horn throw on strikeouts but a warning usually.

In paper or on line, rule books can be cumbersome.. ..The scoring rules in ncaa SB are in section 14... Read that part throuroughly and the rest of the rule book secondly..
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