How to score basic errors

[mitcharf]

I've got a pretty simply question. Runner on first base, nobody out. Batter hits a routine ground ball to the shortstop. The ball tips off the shortstop's glove and everybody is safe. There is no question that the ball should have been fielded and should be an error. However, there is no way to know where the shortstop was planning to throw the ball after fielding it. Most likely they would throw to second base, to get the lead runner, but this is based just on what most people would do in that situation, not based on any physical evidence.

So when scoring this in iScore, which do I do?

1) Batter reached on error, runner on 1B advanced by batter to 2B?

2) Batter reached on FC, runner safe at 2B due to error?

3) Batter reached on error, runner on 1B got to 2B due to same error?

That last one makes the least sense to me, since they didn't BOTH advance due to error (unless we're assuming a double play, which isn't what I'm wondering about here). The only thing which even makes me think #3 is a possibility is what if we were instead talking about the bases being loaded, and the same thing happened. In that case, let's assume the shortstop could have thrown out the lead runner at home for the force out. If that's the case, and if they make an error, then my understanding is that the batter should not get credit for the RBI. But if you follow logic #1, then in the bases loaded case, iScore gives an RBI to the batter. So to avoid the RBI, you'd need to go with #2 or #3.

I guess my question is this -- how do you decide where the fielder was going to attempt to throw the ball, if the error happened in such a way that you can't really tell what their intention was? Does that make sense?

[team mom]

I would probably score batter reached on error, runner advanced to second by batter. You could also advance the runner by error - it would not change anything statistically.

Since you have to make an assumption on what the fielder would have done, I would go with the easiest out, which is usually the out at first.

Not sure if there is actually a rule that covers this but will post if I find anything.

[team mom]

The definition of fielder's choice includes either a put-out of a preceding runner or the attempt of a put-out of a preceding runner. Since your description had no attempt made due to a fielding error, I would have the batter ROE and the runner on first advance by batter. (Your choice #1.)

MLB Rules 2.0
FIELDER’S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and,
instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter-runner, throws to another base in an
attempt to put out a preceding runner. The term is also used by scorers (a) to account for
the advance of the batter-runner who takes one or more extra bases when the fielder who
handles his safe hit attempts to put out a preceding runner; (b) to account for the advance
of a runner (other than by stolen base or error) while a fielder is attempting to put out
another runner; and (c) to account for the advance of a runner made solely because of the
defensive team’s indifference (undefended steal).

[mitcharf]

So the consensus so far is that batter should ROE, runners are advanced by batter. But this does seem to cause a problem. Let's take the situation where the bases are loaded, nobody out, and the batter hits a ground ball back to the pitcher. This ground ball is routine and should be fielded with easy effort. If fielded, the pitcher would have a routine force out at any base. However, it tips off the pitcher's glove, and by the time they track it down, everyone is safe at the next base. Following the previous logic, in iScore I would score this:

Batter reached on error
Runnner 3B -> home advanced by batter
Runner 2B -> 3B advanced by batter
Runner 1B -> 2B advanced by batter

If I do this, though, the batter is credited with an RBI by iScore. But according to rule 10.04:

(a) The official scorer shall credit the batter with a run batted in for every run that scores:
(1) unaided by an error and as part of a play begun by the batter's safe hit (including the batter's home run), sacrifice bunt, sacrifice fly, infield out or fielder's choice, unless Rule 10.04(b) applies;
(2) by reason of the batter becoming a runner with the bases full (because of a base on balls, an award of first base for being touched by a pitched ball or for interference or obstruction); or
(3) when, before two are out, an error is made on a play on which a runner from third base ordinarily would score.

I suppose if you argue that the pitcher would have thrown to first base to get the batter out, then the runner from third base may well score. So in that sense, even though an error was made, the runner from third base would still have scored. And thus the batter would get an RBI. But that only makes sense if we assume the pitcher is going to throw to first base. I'd think that most pitchers would choose to throw home and get the force out there, assuming it was also an easy play, since that would prevent the run from scoring. If THAT is what the pitcher would have done, then the batter would be reaching on a FC, and the runner would be scoring on error -- hence, no RBI.

I guess my confusion is, we are forced to conjecture about what the pitcher would have done had they fielded the ball cleanly. I think most pitchers (and most infielders) will try to get the lead-most runner on which they still have a pretty certain out, or will try to go for whichever runner may allow them to turn a double play. When scoring, how much of this thought process should we go through, though? How you score the play really seems to depend on what you think the pitcher would have done.

[FTMSupport]

There are many scorekeeper judgment issues, and iScore allows you to score the play any way you like. iScore can not see the play occurring, only you as the scorekeeper can, so you need to enter the play based on what you saw.

If you want to give the batter credit for an RBI (as he would be even if grounded out), then use Advanced by Batter for the runners. If you as the scorekeeper feel the pitcher would have thrown the ball home and gotten the out at home, then enter the runners as advancing on Error and the batter will not get the RBI.

[mitcharf]

I guess I'm asking that even apart from iScore, what does a scorekeeper do when an error is made that makes it impossible for you to know what the fielder would have done with the ball had they fielded it cleanly? Do you assume they would make the "smartest" play (as in, assuming less than 2 outs, go for the lead-most routine play OR the base most likely to start a potential double-play)? Or do you always assume they'd try to make the play at first base, unless you have concrete evidence to suggest they would have done something else?

[FTMSupport]

Here is a related link from MLB Official Scoring site:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/of ... rer_10.jsp

10.16 Earned Runs And Runs Allowed
An earned run is a run for which a pitcher is held accountable. In determining earned runs, the official scorer shall reconstruct the inning without the errors (which exclude catcher's interference) and passed balls, giving the benefit of the doubt always to the pitcher in determining which bases would have been reached by runners had there been errorless play. For the purpose of determining earned runs, an intentional base on balls, regardless of the circumstances, shall be construed in exactly the same manner as any other base on balls.

So in general, you would err on the side of the pitcher (meaning saying the runners advanced on the error and not earned), and the rule goes on further to say...

(d) No run shall be earned when the scoring runner's advance has been aided by an error, a passed ball or defensive interference or obstruction, if in the official scorer’s judgment the run would not have scored without the aid of such misplay.

...

(f) Whenever a fielding error occurs, the pitcher shall be given the benefit of the doubt in determining to which bases any runners would have advanced had the fielding of the defensive team been errorless.

So this would be your judgment call as the scorer to decide what you think the player would have done had the ball been fielded cleanly.