Overtime

[soccerman]

Suggestion for overtime settings

We had our first game go to overtime this past weekend, which we had the game set up to track overtime but noticed a couple of odd things. We also went to a shoot out as the game was still tied after two overtime periods.

First, there is no setting for number of overtime periods.

Second, the display above the time went straight to final when the game ended 0-0. After checking the game settings and clicking undo twice, then letting the time run out again the next period button displayed. This then reset the display to overtime 1 and set the clock to 10 minutes as indicated in the set up of overtime length, so not sure why it didn't just go to 'next period' at the end of regulation.

Third, when the first overtime was over and we started the second overtime (pushed next period) the clock reset to 40 minutes (normal half length) and it displayed period 2. Not knowing what to do I adjusted the clock down to zero and it again said final at 0-0, clicked undo and it went to next period again and displayed overtime 1 (I think the score screen showed 4OT in total, so not sure how I did that).

Four, Playing time seems to be correct as we have our keeper showing as 6/6 games played/started with 510 minutes (80 minutes x 6 games plus 2 x 10 minute overtime), however our team total only shows as 6 games for 480 minutes...

Five, we finished the game with a shoot out 7-8 on 10 shooters but the game still displays as 0-0 as the final score...

Suggestions based on above:
1. Add a selection for number of overtime periods (I think most situations would be 2, but depending on league rules could be until there is a winner - maybe why it's set the way it is)

2. Fix so if the game ends in a tie it will display 'next period' correctly at the end of each period. (maybe this was unique to our game, have not tested it again to try and reproduce)

3. Fix clock reset based on Overtime, not on initial game length. (same as 2 have not tried to reproduce)

4. Add overtime minutes to total team minutes.

5. Maybe add in a section just for shoot outs like that of 'Has Overtimes | YES | No | ' - Has Shoot Out |Yes|No| -, also add in a number of shooters selection like 'Periods |2|4|6|8|' it would then be sudden death after that number of shooters. With those setting selected, once the overtimes are over the app would go into a shoot out mode. Perhaps, just go to the shot view screen where it shows the goal, listing the games players down each side (home team on left and away team on right). You could then select the shooter and click what happened continuing from there. Once a winner is determined in a shout out the final score should be updated to reflect the winner, 0-1 in our case.

It was easy to do the shoot out using the current 'Shoot Out' button in the action selection, and I did notice that each time the shoot out button was pressed it did display 'Shoot out' where it usually displays 'Period #'.

Thank you for your consideration on these items.

[FTMSupport]

Thank you for the detailed list of suggestions. We will add these to our enhancement list as well as the previous suggestions you have given.

[FTMSupport]

There is no setting for overtime periods by design. Many scorekeepers may not know how many overtimes there are so we are going to leave it so that when there is a tie, there will always just be an option to go to a next overtime period. If the game is actually over in a tie then you can select Options and press End Game. If you have reached the maximum number of overtimes and a shootout is in effect, you will select each player in turn who will take a shootout shot and press Shootout as the action. This will continue until the game is decided at which time you will press Options and select End Game.

We believe we have fixed all of the issues with the timers and next period button behaving incorrectly, and we will be sending an update to Apple shortly.

According to NCAA rules http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Man ... 2009ez.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Section 7 Article 2. All contests decided by the tiebreaker procedure of taking kicks from the penalty-kick line or spot shall be counted as ties for each team’s overall record. The score shall be recorded as a tie.

So your request that the final score be updated to reflect the winner would be against NCAA rules. We do show the shootout result in parenthesis in the play by play and main scoring screen.

[soccerman]

Good to know, and thank you for working on the time fixes. Interesting on the NCAA rules as the last year I played college soccer was 2002 and also happened to be the last year ties broken by PKs resulted in a win/loss

I don't want to sound or be confrontational and don't expect any changes to come from this. I'm just a little confused by your reasoning, so would like a little more clarification please.


Question in regard to your use of NCAA rules: Why would you not simply use two overtime periods, both of which are sudden victory?....2012-2013 NCAA- rules 6.3 Timekeeper (sorry couldn't get it to link directly to that rule)

I just don't think you should use one rule on statistics from a given source and then not use it for all other items (in this case # of overtime periods). So in using NCAA rules there should only be two overtime periods, period.

In regards to not knowing the number of overtime periods - If the app is being used by an official scorekeeper (only person eligible to keep official NCAA stats) they would know the number of overtime periods and/or if it has Penalty-Kicks after those overtime periods have ended, since the NCAA has no leeway on changing this aspect according to their rules 7.1.1 through A.R. 7.1.1.b. after the game has begun. -I think you can always change these settings in the app if unknown at the start of a contest by whoever is using the app during the game by clicking on the settings icon- In many leagues, at least leagues I've played in or coached in, there is either overtime or no overtime and it's always been two overtime periods of the same length. With the only difference being that of Golden Goal or No Golden Goal. I mean it's not like the NHL where you used to have 3 and 4 overtime periods, or as many as needed to determine a winner, I'm sure their maybe a league out there that uses this in soccer but again it could be determined by an |on|off| switch of some kind.



Another question: What is the reasoning for using NCAA rule statistics for the app? Just curious, as I would think you'd use FIFAs Laws of the Game since they are the overall governing body (also used by US Soccer Federation), where each lower level is somewhat able to modify/change rules/procedures as seen fit and approved by FIFA or the US Soccer Federation (which I think governs the NCAA on it's soccer rules). Laws of the Game Law 10 in the 'Competition Rules' it would be determined by each competition on how a game winner will be determined. One of the reasons I suggested the optional switches to turn events on/off as you already have with the 'Overtime |Yes|No|' switch, but simply to expand that to number of overtime periods and then tiebreakers Penalty-Kicks |Yes|No|. This could also be used to determine if it is added to the final score or not. But if like you said your using the NCAA ruling on this for score display then simply revert back to the above item and limit overtimes to two periods as well.

Again though, thank you for all your input and follow up!

[FTMSupport]

iScore is used by a wide variety of age groups from AYSO to high school to adult leagues and while we have seen many different rules from various organization about overtimes, we are only aware of one rule governing the recording of scores with regards to shootouts. We have therefore made overtimes less restrictive to allow for the various league rules, and we believe the way we have implemented overtimes is more intuitive because it does not require you to look for a setting before the event occurs or scramble to find the setting after a scorekeeper realizes he needs it. People will often use iScore to score both younger age soccer games and high school level games and would have to remember to change the settings with each new game. Instead, the way it is implemented now, they simply have to select End Game at the appropriate time.

If you know of a rule governing the recording of scores with regards to shootouts that differs from the NCAA rules and can provide a reference, we can create a mode switch for FIFA vs NCAA as we did with football and NCAA vs NFL. Or if you know of any rule where NCAA differs from FIFA rules and iScore is not handling the difference correctly, please provide the references and we can make the necessary adjustments