Error on Muffed Foul Ball

[bepeacock]

I had a big debate with the official scorer of our AA minor league team about a play that happened that I thought should be an error. I mean, who am I to argue with the official guru, but I was trying to understand.

Bases were empty and batter popped up close to the dugout on the third base line. Catcher missed the ball and fell over on his mis-judgement. According to MLB rule 10.12(a)2, if a muffed foul ball prolongs the at-bat, it's an error. He says since it didn't affect the game, it doesn't count as an error. I read no such qualification to the rule. (Several rules have scenarios to explain them; there is no additional supporting text for this rule.)

I thought he meant that since the batter went on to strikeout, then since nothing came of the muffed foul, then no error. If he had gotten a hit, then it would have been changed to an error. But he said no, you can't do that...it is only defined based on the current play.

So I'm reading the rule and not understanding where he justifies not giving an error.

[OhioTex]

We have had this discussion before in this forum, but can't find it at the moment...

If the play was deemd routine and muffed, score it an error. Sounds like confusing 'earned run / unearned run inning reconstruction with error designation. The error designation is explicitly allowed in 10.12.a.2 as it covers muffed pop fouls.

The later did it effect game or not, question is used to determine number of un earned / earned runs. Say a batter reaches on e4. Then is picked off 1-3 before next batter sees a pitch, the e4 is still an error even

This is different than passed balls and wild pitches (as a statistic), where the same physical event is treated different depending on if a runner does or does not advance. A pitch can be over the back stop wild, but if no one on, just a ball.... Same pitch runner on first advances to second, wild pitch..

[PetroGuy]

I don't remember when the rule was changed, but a missed foul ball was scored the way your official scorekeeper mentioned. If a foul was dropped, you had to wait until the end of the at bat to determine if it was an error. If the batter got out anyway, no error. If he got on, then an error was scored.

This was changed relatively recently to the current rule which OhioTex mentioned. As he said, if it prolongs the batter's at bat, then it is an error. Sounds like that scorekeeper is just behind on his rules.

[team mom]

10.12 ERRORS
An error is a statistic charged against a fielder whose action has assisted the team
on offense, as set forth in this Rule 10.12.
(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:
(2) when such fielder muffs a foul fly to prolong the time at bat of a batter,
whether the batter subsequently reaches first base or is put out;

10.16 EARNED RUNS AND RUNS ALLOWED
(b) No run shall be earned when scored by a runner who reaches first base
(1) on a hit or otherwise after his time at bat is prolonged by a muffed foul fly;

[bepeacock]

OhioTex, yes maybe he was considering "did it affect the game" in context of earned runs....ER never even crossed my mind. ERs are clear in my mind. It would be surprising to me that the official scorer would confuse the two situations.

Petro, I'm not sure that is correct because you can only consider the current situation in determining if an error is committed. You can't consider what happens later and say, yes that's an error after all. That type of reconstruction, as OhioTex pointed out, is for determining ERs. As Team Mom quoted with the rule, it clearly says "whether the batter subsequently reaches first base or is put out". In my case, the batter did go on to be put out, but my point to the scorer was, the at-bat was prolonged. Period. Error. No caveat for "An error shall be recorded if the at-bat is prolonged unless it does not affect the game."

I could tell I was getting on his nerves, so I gave up that night, but I'm still pretty convinced it was scored wrong by him.

[Bovine]

The "didn't affect the game" statement is wrong. Of course it affected the game. Apart from the batter's time at bat being extended, the pitcher had to throw more pitches. It is impossible to determine the impact of the muffed foul fly. It is an error.
Given that the foul fly must have been able to be caught with reasonable error.

[JRG]

Seems clear to me that an error should be scored regardless. Next question, how does one do so in iScore? Seems like the error can be captured in iScore if and only if the runner reaches based in which case you enter the play as Safe on an error.

[FTMSupport]

Press Misc -> Assign Error and select who the error is on. You can add a note if you want more details about the situation.

[JRG]

Thanks. Love that after scoring 100+ games I'm still learning about things this app can do.

[marks2v]

After the game, how do I go back and correct this? The frame in Pitch By Pitch simply shows "Foul Ball" with no Edit option.