error with counting earned runs

[Dkriesel]

I noticed that the program did not count earned runs in some cases, but listed them as unearned in the stats. Example: We have three pitchers, on one pitcher it counted the runs correctly, earned and unearned. the next pitcher it did not count the earned runs in her stats. In that particular inning, there was a FC, BB and an error. If all three scored, then it would only be two earned runs and one unearned. The stat did not count the two earned runs, only counted them as unearned. Is there an error? This happened in three of the games the same girl pitched in. It was only her games. Is there a glitch?

[OhioTex]

Earned runs and unearned runs can be manually adjusted in stats if you deem the computer calculation incorrect. (from game info screen, tap pitching statistics and tap the cell to change earned and unearned, keyboard will pop up and over ride stats will be in red, dependent stats will be recalculated.

The computer generally does a good job determining earned and un earned but s not always perfect, There is not enough detail in you post to agree of disagree for your specific situation. ...how many outs for example, and when runs cross plate..

[Dkriesel]

I had to manually adjust the stats and input the correct runs. It was just strange how the computer did it right for one pitcher and not for the other.

[OhioTex]

I do not have access to see your game, but if you want to explain the situation in more detail we can try and trouble shoot if a systemic issue that needs developer attention or if the cause is situation for scorers judgement that programing could not anticipate.

[PetroGuy]

I'll echo OhioTex. The program does a good job normally in determining earned runs. If you give us the run and out sequences, we can tell if the program is missing a particular situation or if the runs are really earned. In your case, if there are two outs and the FC and BB did not score until the error occurred, then all three runs are probably unearned. We just need more detail to troubleshoot.

[Dkriesel]

The program does a pretty good job, but I would have to disagree on your post Petroguy. The only unearned run would be the batter because she got on with an error, not the other girls who earned the base (FC, BB). Regardless of how many outs. If a girl gets on base by an error, that is an unearned run. If they get on base other than an error, then it is earned. I do go in and manually change the stats. I will provide you more information, just give me what you need.

@ ohiotex - I do think that there is a systemic issue that needs attention. The computer already knows when a hit is made and scores it. It just needs to know that when it is marked as an error, that it is unearned, which it does. However, if there are other people on base that had reached safely (hit, BB, etc) then those runs should be counted as earned, which most cases it does except when it is followed by an error by the hitter. Does that make sense? PM me and we can discuss over phone, which would be easier.

[PetroGuy]

I think you have a misconception about earned runs. I'm not familiar with softball scoring rules, but everything I've heard about it indicates the rules are very similar to baseball scoring rules as far as earned runs. I won't quote the full set of MLB rules because they are pretty extensive, but basically earned/unearned runs are to be determined by reconstructing an inning assuming errorless play and judging whether a run would score or not. Just because a batter reaches base on a hit (earning the base in your terminology) does not mean a run subsequently scored by that player would count as an earned run. Other errors could make that run unearned.

For example, to start an inning, Pitcher A gives up three singles to the first three batters. No errors are made and the bases are loaded. The catcher tries to pick off a runner and air mails the throw deep to the fence and all three runs come around and score. The next three batters strike out. With errorless play, none of the runs would have scored so all three runs are unearned even though they each reached base with legitimate hits. Now, if one of the batters who stuck out had hit a home run instead, all three runs would be earned.

[team mom]

The rules are the same for softball. A runner who makes it to first base on a legitimate hit can still be an unearned run, depending on the circumstances.

1. Earned runs are scored for all runs for which the pitcher is held accountable.
2. Earned runs are determined by reconstructing the inning as it would have been
played without errors and passed balls (including errors on the pitcher).
3. When in doubt, always give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher when deciding
which bases would have been reached by errorless play. Never assume runners
would have gotten extra bases on a hit unless it is obvious.
4. When reconstructing a run that scores to end the game, but on a play where an
error occured, and with less than two outs, use your judgement considering outs,
who was up, etc. to decide if that run might have scored had the game continued.
5. Bases gained by the following, and where the runner scores, result in an earned
run (defensive interference is considered an opportunity for a putout):
a - Hit,
b - Sacrifice bunt or sacrifice fly,
c - Stolen base,
d - Fielder's choke (putouts on succeeding runner),
e - Bases on balls,
f - Batters hit by pitch,
g - illegal pitch, and
h - Wild pitch (including a third strike wild pitch where the batter
reaches first base safely).
6. The run is unearned (scores in spite of pitching efforts) if the runner who scores
reached first base in the following ways:
a - On an error,
b - After her life at the plate was prolonged by a dropped foul fly, or
c - On interference or obstruction (the interference or obstruction
should be counted as an opportunity for a putout).
7. The run is unearned if the runner who scores has her baserunning life prolonged
by an error, and would have been put out by errorless play. Never assume the
second out of a double play should have been completed unless a caught throw is
dropped.
8. The run is unearned if a runner who advances by an error, passed ball, or defensive interference/obstruction, would not have scored without the misplay.
9. A relief pitcher does not receive benefit of previous chances for outs when
reconstructing the inning in determining earned or unearned runs she put on, while
the original pitcher does. Thus, a relief pitcher could be charged With an eajited run
which does not appear in the team totals,
10. If a tie-breaker runner scores from second base and the pitcher is held
accountable for all bases gained, score the run eal ned but do not charge it to that
pitcher, charge it to the team. (See tiebreaker scoring on page 32).
11. The run is unearned if there is an error on a play at home.
12. A batter that is on by a fielder's choice can only score an earned run if the
runner who was played on with the fielder's choice, was a potential earned run.

NFCA Homeplate: ATEC: Beyond The Basics of Scoring Fastpitch Softball

[Dkriesel]

Thanks, this helps out a lot

[OhioTex]

@dkriesel.... (not ignoring your outreach....been off line)...

As you can see by the post from teammom, the rules for determining earned/unearned runs are generally considered the same for softball and baseball ..... And not as simple as 'did the runner who scored originally reach by hit or error' .

This is why to troubleshoot the program's calculation, we need to look at very specific situation detail to see if a systematic program issue/opportunity exists..