RE: Uncaught third strike, batter-runner safe at first, when to credit (or not credit) a PB/WP to Catcher/Pitcher ?
Currently in iScore, whenever you enter the Batter Safe at First on Drop Third Strike (or Wild Pitch Third Strike) button, a Passed Ball/ Wild Pitch is credited in the fielding stats to Catcher/Pitcher. Which by MLB Rule 9.13 (b) I always thought made sense. But a comment to Rule 9.13 gave me cause to reconsider. (both MLB rule references copied below.)
I would appreciate others input on this, as i have talked myself into a circle. I think answer should be same for softball/baseball.
Situation:
- Runner on base, an un caught third strike on batter, batter-runner is safe at first, but defense makes an out on another runner on the play...
- Does the catcher still get dinged with a PB (or pitcher w/ WP)?
- a) What if defense gets out the Lead runner? (i.e. makes a good strategic fielding decision)
- e.g R2, 0 outs: D3S: Defense tags out R2 going to 3rd.
Update: Answer No, Passed ball assigned to Catcher stats
no base runners advance, (except batter-runner) and defense improved its situation from before the pitch ( better with R1 and 1 out, than R3 and 1 out, or R2 and 0 outs)
- e.g, R2,R3, 0 outs: D3S: R3 held at 3rd, R2 tagged out, Batter safe at 1
Update: Answer No, Passed ball assigned to Catcher stats
no Base Runners Advanced (except batter-runner) and Defense improved their pre pitch situation ( R3 R1 and 1 out vs R3 R2 and o out)
- e.g, R2,R3, 0 outs: D3S: R3 scores, R2 out at 3rd, Batter safe at 1?
Update: Answer Yes, Passed ball assigned to catcher.
the passed ball allowed the batter-runner to reach first and allowed the runner R3 to advance (even score) defense worsened their situation pre/post pitch..
(FYI batter does not get an RBI because his actions at the plate did not give rise to the run scoring).
- e.g.. Bases loaded, 2 outs, D3S, Catcher steps on Home for third out (the smart play) ?
Update: Answer No, Passed ball assigned to Catcher stats
Same answer for any 3rd out, force out, on BR, R1, R2, or R3 situation, no runs scored, no runners advance, no passed ball
- e.g.. 2 outs, R1,R2, D3S, Catcher over throws third (error catcher), R2 scores and R1 tagged out at 3rd, (after R3 scored).
Update: Answer Yes, Passed ball assigned to Catcher stats
Batter Advances to first, and R2 advances to Third because of passed ball and R2 scores before third out is made, and R2 scores on Throwing error,
- e.g R2, 0 outs: D3S: Defense tags out R2 going to 3rd.
- a) What if defense gets out the Lead runner? (i.e. makes a good strategic fielding decision)
thanks
OhioTex
Original/related thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11903
some MLB rule References
MLB 9.12.f.2
When the catcher recovers the ball after a wild pitch or passed ball on the third strike, and throws out the batter- runner at first base, or tags out the batter-runner, but another runner or runners advance, the official scorer shall score the strikeout, the putout and assists, if any, and credit the advance of the other runner or runners on the play as a fielder’s choice.
9.13.(b)
The official scorer shall charge a catcher with a passed ball when the catcher fails to hold or to control a legally pitched ball that should have been held or controlled with ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. When the third strike is a passed ball, permitting the batter to reach first base, the official scorer shall score a strikeout and a passed ball.
Rule 9.13 Comment:
The official scorer shall not charge a wild pitch or passed ball if the defensive team makes an out before any runners advance. For example, if a pitch touches the ground and eludes the catcher with a runner on first base, but the catcher recovers the ball and throws to second base in time to retire the runner, the official scorer shall not charge the pitcher with a wild pitch. The official scorer shall credit the advancement of any other runner on the play as a fielder’s choice. If a catcher drops a pitch, for example, with a runner on first base, but the catcher recovers the ball and throws to second base in time to retire the runner, the official scorer shall not charge the catcher with a passed ball. The official scorer shall credit the advancement of any other runner on the play as a fielder’s choice.