FC or Hit?

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ixamnis
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Re: FC or Hit?

Post by ixamnis » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:56 am

OhioTex wrote:I find the umpire point of view most interesting on the need to tag .... I do not think it would matter if baseball or softball... I would think force still in play

Hope someone can pull up a case reference on tag now needed.. W runner between first and second base....

I've now had an NAIA head softball coach also say "has to be tagged" but says batter gets a "hit".
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OhioTex
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Re: FC or Hit?

Post by OhioTex » Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:21 am

Both topics seem well defined in the rules, and as I would have expected them had I been scoring the game live

9.05 (b) 3.. NOT. A hit, (b/c proceeding runner out)

5.09 (b) 6... Force play reinstated. (tag or force can be used)

MLB 2015 rule book

5.09 Making an Out

(b) (7.08) Retiring a Runner
Any runner is out when:

(6) He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out. The force is removed as soon as the runner touches the base to which he is forced to advance, and if he overslides or overruns the base, the runner must be tagged to be put out. However, if the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base he had last occupied, the force play is reinstated, and he can again be put out if the defense tags the base to which he is forced;
MLB 2015 rule book

9.05 Base Hits

(b) The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a:

(3) pitcher, the catcher or any infielder handles a batted ball and puts out a preceding runner who is attempting to advance one base or to return to his original base, or would have put out such runner with ordinary effort except for a fielding error. The official scorer shall charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;
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PetroGuy
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Re: FC or Hit?

Post by PetroGuy » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:53 pm

I've now had an NAIA head softball coach also say "has to be tagged" but says batter gets a "hit".
Not to be too combative, but coaches are sometimes the least informed people with regards to rules.
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OhioTex
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Re: FC or Hit?

Post by OhioTex » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:07 pm

Earlier post had asked about the tag vs force and mentioned Softball.
ixamnis wrote: I can not find a rule with similar wording in the NCAA softball rules. A high school softball umpire indicated to me that the runner mistakenly heading back to first after gaining second would have to be tagged out. I haven't got a reply back as to whether he would have called it a hit or a FC. He also admitted he wasn't totally sure of the answer. And so it goes.
I found the same "force play is reinstated" language in NCAA Softball rules.
NCAA softball 2014-2015

12.26 Tag and Force Plays

12.26.3 A force play occurs when a base runner loses her right to occupy a base because the batter-runner or a trailing runner has not yet been put out. When a forced base runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason toward the base she last occupied, the force play is reinstated.

12.26.6 If an appeal is upheld at a base to which a base runner was forced to advance and the out is a force out, no runs would score if it was the third out. If a forced base runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason toward the base she had last occupied, the force play is reinstated, and she may again be put out if the defense tags the base to which she is forced.
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ixamnis
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Re: FC or Hit?

Post by ixamnis » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:25 am

Thanks for researching this. I must have overlooked these rules. They speak pretty directly to the situation. Wonder why two umpires and a coach thought the runner had to be tagged. Hard to know all the rules I guess.
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