I'm curious what you guys think of this situation:
Man on first. Ball is hit directly to the first baseman. First baseman fields cleanly and instead of going to first, pivots to throw to get the lead runner. As he turns to throw, he loses his footing. He releases the ball as he goes to the ground and the throw does not get the lead runner. The throw was not in the dirt, did not sail high, just simply was 'slower' because of the first baseman going to the ground. So no out is record and there are runners on first and second.
I scored this as a fielder's choice with no out recorded, with no error issued. My reasoning was that the ball was fielded cleanly and the throw was on target, but slow.
Thoughts?
IanK
Scoring Question
Scoring Question
Last edited by iklimon on Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ian Klimon
Slammers Black 13U Major
http://www.slammersbaseball.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Slammers Black 13U Major
http://www.slammersbaseball.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Scoring Question
I agree fielder's choice as it sounds like an easy out at first had the defensive player gone that route. Not making the out on the lead runner does not make it a hit. Judgment call by scorekeeper whether runner advanced to 2B on error (would runner had been out if fielder had cleanly played the ball?) but sounds like you decided it was not an error so scoring is correct.
Team Mom
Check out the new iscore documentation page!
Includes videos and user manual.
http://iscoresports.com/baseball/training.php#docs
Check out the new iscore documentation page!
Includes videos and user manual.
http://iscoresports.com/baseball/training.php#docs
Re: Scoring Question
I agree 100% with team mom no hit. but If i were scoring at my youth games, if i thought an out should have been made on the play with ordinary effort -- I would likely score e3 not FC.
I understand the comments in MLB rule book on "fielded cleanly", and 'slow throw' does not equal error, but for me, with my age of travel ball (14u baseball and 16u fast pitch) - I first ask, "should an out have been made with ordinary effort". and If my standard of "ordinary effort" says yes, I skew to error and do not go looking for caveats to not score an error. If it says "debatable", I do give benefit to batter (like ORB) . But that said, I am not timid on scoring fielders errors. I remind folks, it is not just about the batter and fielder but also the pitcher and team ability to win games. (and no i am nor a pitchers parent).
In this case the batter is not getting avg or OBP credit either way, FC or e3. and if should have been an out, i am willing to score e3, especially when i reconstruct the inning for earned and unearned runs.
I understand the comments in MLB rule book on "fielded cleanly", and 'slow throw' does not equal error, but for me, with my age of travel ball (14u baseball and 16u fast pitch) - I first ask, "should an out have been made with ordinary effort". and If my standard of "ordinary effort" says yes, I skew to error and do not go looking for caveats to not score an error. If it says "debatable", I do give benefit to batter (like ORB) . But that said, I am not timid on scoring fielders errors. I remind folks, it is not just about the batter and fielder but also the pitcher and team ability to win games. (and no i am nor a pitchers parent).
In this case the batter is not getting avg or OBP credit either way, FC or e3. and if should have been an out, i am willing to score e3, especially when i reconstruct the inning for earned and unearned runs.
..........................................
iScore Baseball/Softball
* FAQ http://iscoresports.com//baseball/support.php
* Updated Manual http://iscoresports.com/baseball/manual.php?gd=1
* Stat Formulas http://data.iscorecentral.com/legend.ph ... internal=1
iScore Baseball/Softball
* FAQ http://iscoresports.com//baseball/support.php
* Updated Manual http://iscoresports.com/baseball/manual.php?gd=1
* Stat Formulas http://data.iscorecentral.com/legend.ph ... internal=1
Re: Scoring Question
I understand your reasoning. Let's modify the situation a bit:
Everything about the play as listed above remains the same, except let me make this modification:
First baseman doesn't field the ball cleanly but still has plenty of time to touch the bag and get the out at first.
He chooses to go after the lead runner. Everything else about the situation remains as above.
Again, I would go fielder's choice. The only question in my mind, does the first baseman get charged with an error on the play? He could have easily made it an U3 / out.
Everything about the play as listed above remains the same, except let me make this modification:
First baseman doesn't field the ball cleanly but still has plenty of time to touch the bag and get the out at first.
He chooses to go after the lead runner. Everything else about the situation remains as above.
Again, I would go fielder's choice. The only question in my mind, does the first baseman get charged with an error on the play? He could have easily made it an U3 / out.
Ian Klimon
Slammers Black 13U Major
http://www.slammersbaseball.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Slammers Black 13U Major
http://www.slammersbaseball.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Scoring Question
I think I would score the batter reaching on FC and the runner advancing on E3. Statistically, the batter AVG effect is the same whether you score it as a FC or an E3. It may affect other stats such as ROE, but I believe OBP would not be affected (does not count ROE or FC.)
Team Mom
Check out the new iscore documentation page!
Includes videos and user manual.
http://iscoresports.com/baseball/training.php#docs
Check out the new iscore documentation page!
Includes videos and user manual.
http://iscoresports.com/baseball/training.php#docs
Re: Scoring Question
Oddly enough, I had originally scored it as a FC with E3 on the throw to second. After consideration, I switched it to FC. Upon further consideration I have switched it back to the FC w/runner advancing to 2nd base on an E3.
BTW, my son was the First Baseman in this example. I don't really care about the result of the play in a statistical sense, I'm more interested in learning the nuances of what was relatively speaking, a strange play.
He intended to start a 3-6-3 double play. Obviously it didn't play out that way.
Thanks for your input!
IanK
BTW, my son was the First Baseman in this example. I don't really care about the result of the play in a statistical sense, I'm more interested in learning the nuances of what was relatively speaking, a strange play.
He intended to start a 3-6-3 double play. Obviously it didn't play out that way.
Thanks for your input!
IanK
Ian Klimon
Slammers Black 13U Major
http://www.slammersbaseball.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Slammers Black 13U Major
http://www.slammersbaseball.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;