Double play on a sacrifice bunt.

ixamnis · Post by **ixamnis** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:22 am

No outs and runner on first base. Batter lays down a bunt and is thrown out 1-4 at first base. runner makes it to second but rounds the base and is picked off getting back to second on throw from 4-6. I think I entered it (Out, Sac bunt, indicated ground ball to pitcher, touched 1-4-6 and then What happened to runner at second, double play), but on the score card it is showing the first out at second coming on force and the second out on 1-4-6 double play. It was a double play but the batter also advanced the runner to second so does the batter get credit for a sacrifice bunt? So multiple concerns here: How to enter it and do I have the correct scoring in mind to start with?

Post by **team mom** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:48 am

I don't think it technically qualifies as a double play because the second out was not a force out. The runner had already made it safely to the base so the force was eliminated. If I am wrong, someone will be sure to reference a rule.

I would score the runner advance to second on the sac bunt, then out on a pick off.

ixamnis · Post by **ixamnis** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:53 am

I went back and edited it the way team mom suggested and it certainly makes the score card look correct. I still wonder about the fielders getting credit for a double play though.

Post by **FTMSupport** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:04 am

According to MLB rules, it seems it may actually be a double play:

10.11 Double And Triple Plays
The official scorer shall credit participation in a double play or triple play to each fielder who earns a putout or an assist when two or three players are put out between the time a pitch is delivered and the time the ball next becomes dead or is next in possession of the pitcher in a pitching position, unless an error or misplay intervenes between putouts.

This would mean however that it is not a sacrifice bunt. It seems the correct scoring of this situation may in fact just be a bunt out (1-4-6) with runner being out on a Double Play.

Post by **mprusak** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:19 am

I think it should be a double play. In either case, I would score it as:

Out->Sac Bunt->1-4->what happened to runner?->out->second->tagged out->4-6

Then manually give each player credit for double play in stats post-game.

This makes the scorecard correct and the assists and put outs correct.

I cant see a clean way to do this.

Forrest Howe · Post by **Forrest Howe** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:58 am

If the runner actually occupied the bag, then I don't think it would be a double play. I can't help but wonder if it is like a batter hits a ball and heads for second. If he is thrown out before reaching the bag, he is credited with only a single. But if he makes it to second safely and then due to bad base running, is thrown out after occupying the bag, he is credited with a double.

Post by **team mom** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:05 am

Agree with FTM. Double play and no sac bunt.

10.08 SACRIFICES
The official scorer shall:
(c) Not score a sacrifice bunt when any runner is put out attempting to advance one base
on a bunt, in which case the official scorer shall charge the batter with a time at bat; and

Post by **mprusak** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:08 am

OK, no sac bunt, but using double play in this case doesnt work perfectly either (even though it should be a DP).

Post by **team mom** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:09 am

Double play rule does not require a force out (my mistake.)

A DOUBLE PLAY is a play by the defense in which two offensive players are put
out as a result of continuous action, providing there is no error between putouts.
(b) A reverse force double play is one in which the first out is a force play and the
second out is made on a runner for whom the force is removed by reason of
the first out. Examples of reverse force plays: runner on first, one out; batter
grounds to first baseman, who steps on first base (one out) and throws to second
baseman or shortstop for the second out (a tag play).

The ball was never dead in this play.
10.11 DOUBLE AND TRIPLE PLAYS
The official scorer shall credit participation in a double play or triple play to each
fielder who earns a putout or an assist when two or three players are put out between the
time a pitch is delivered and the time the ball next becomes dead or is next in possession
of the pitcher in a pitching position, unless an error or misplay intervenes between putouts.

ixamnis · Post by **ixamnis** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:30 am

Thanks for the input, I was pretty sure it should still be counted as double play and now I know to enter that manually. (Which I have to remember how to do...) Rules stated not withstanding I didn't see anything that obviously says the batter doesn't deserve the sac bunt because in my scenario the runner did initially advance to the next base safely. Would it have been a sac bunt if the runner had tried for third and been thrown out there? If not then I can see why my scenario would also not award a sac bunt. I need a rule quoted that speaks more specifically to the runner being out subsequent to the batter/bunter being thrown out at first and the runner initially making it to the advanced base.

Double play on a sacrifice bunt.

Double play on a sacrifice bunt.

Re: Double play on a sacrifice bunt.

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Re: Double play on a sacrifice bunt.

Re: Double play on a sacrifice bunt.

Re: Double play on a sacrifice bunt.

Re: Double play on a sacrifice bunt.

Re: Double play on a sacrifice bunt.