Fielder's Choice or Error?

[mprusak]

OT - thanks for digging up the rule. I didnt have time to search. I wasnt certain, but believe it is a FC (and no choice, I think, but to give an RBI). I am still interested if anyone has anything that would counter this.

I enjoy these types of threads.

[OhioTex]

yes i enjoy it too

At some point (low priority) i want to also research some historic MLB score books for case examples of similar situation.

It is intriguing, because not only does it impact the RBI as mentioned, but depending on how the inning goes - potentially the Pitcher ERA too.

[OhioTex]

at the risk of keeping a thread open longer than its useful life..

Wanted to follow up and put out a formal "Mea Culpa" out there to my friends in the community,

upon further research, I apparently was way off my rocker that night when suggesting anything by a FC on the play described and yes the RBI too. dug up mlb case studies, and consensus no brainer , technically correct scoring would be no Error on SS, credit SS w an assist and Put out to 3B, credit batter with FC and RBI to batter, Run scored to Baserunner. and earned run to pitcher.

For grins.. however, IF the SS had not picked up the ball and tossed to 3rd, and instead the the ball after hitting SS missed catch rolled toward third basemen and 3B picked up ball and stepped on base or tagged runner from 2B... credit 3B with unassisted put out. E6 on SS, ROE and no RBI for batter. and then account for the error on ERA based on rest of inning.

Thanks fellow moderators for keeping me in line.

Regards/ CV

[PetroGuy]

OhioTex,

Are you sure about the error on E6 in your hypothetical with the ball rolling towards third? Why wouldn't it be a 6-5 putout on the runner on 2nd. This would be a deflection by the SS even if they could have caught it. I'm not sure of this, I'm just asking.

[team mom]

Still no error in your hypothetical because an out was made on the play. Sometimes errors are not recorded because of how the entire play played out. Generally if a force out is made there will be no error on the books even if there was an actual error on the field.

[PetroGuy]

team mom - that was my question to OT. I'm not sure, but I would score it as an FC.

[OhioTex]

As Ss did not recover from fumble to make an out ...

Rule 10.12(d)(4).

The official scorer shall not charge an error against … any fielder when, after fumbling a ground ball or dropping a batted ball that is in flight or a thrown ball, the fielder recovers the ball in time to force out a runner at any base.


in the case, the shortstop did not recover the ball in time to force out a runner. Therefore, an error can and should be charged because but for the shortstop’s failure to catch the line drive that he should/could have caught, the batter would have been put out and no runners would have advanced (absent a base running blunder).

At the same time, the batter (as before) is considered to have reached on a fielder’s choice, but the batter does not get credit for an RBI because the run that scored was “aided by an error”, and that is one of the specific exceptions to the (previously stated) general rule

[FTMSupport]

Usually don't try and get involved in rules interpretation as our goal at iScore is just to allow you to score within the rules, but even in the theoretical situation that OhioTex mentions, it seems this rule would apply:

10.10 ASSISTS
An assist is a statistic credited to a fielder whose action contributes to a batter- runner or runner being put out, as set forth in this Rule 10.10.
(a) The official scorer shall credit an assist to each fielder who
(1) throws or deflects a batted or thrown ball in such a way that a putout results, or would have resulted except for a subsequent error by any fielder. Only one assist and no more shall be credited to each fielder who throws or deflects the ball in a run-down play that results in a putout, or would have resulted in a putout, except for a subsequent error; or


In the theoretical situation, the shortstop deflects the ball to 3B and a putout is made. Does not seem there is an error in that case either... just a 6-5 assisted fielders choice.

[OhioTex]

Given the intital description of the ss drop, I did not have considered it a defection- rather a misplay

10.10 assist
(b) The official scorer shall not credit an assist to

(3) a fielder whose wild throw permits a runner to advance, even though the runner subsequently is put out as a result of continuous play. A play that follows a misplay (whether or not the misplay is an error) is a new play, and the fielder making any misplay shall not be credited with an assist unless such fielder takes part in the new play.

[PetroGuy]

There is no official definition of deflection that I have found. I don't think there has to be an intent to deflect for a deflection to occur. I'm going to have to go with everyone else and say this would still be an FC.