Stat question - Calculating OBP

We will try and answer Questions in this forum. If you are having any issues with iScore Baseball, this is probably the best place to start. You can also search historical posts here.
User avatar
CSThunderCoach
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:55 am
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Re: Stat question - Calculating OBP

Post by CSThunderCoach » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:12 pm

NCAA SOFTBALL RULES AND INTERPRETATIONS considers a Sac Bunt as follows:

14.2.26 Sacrifice: Credit given to a batter who, with fewer than two outs, advances one or more runners by bunting and is called out at first base; would have been called out had no error occurred; or is not called out because the defense plays on another runner who advances safely. (CST - note that even if safe due to play on another runner it is not a FC)

Rule 14.8 would indicate that there is no “judgment call” as in baseball. If a runner is advanced due to a bunt – a sacrifice is awarded to the batter. The sacrifice bunt is employed far more often than in baseball. It is not considered a strategic play as in baseball. It is considered an effective out play in softball. Double-plays are not common in softball, but getting the lead runner is a main focus, so making sure that a ball in play advances a runner and is not just a FC is more important in softball than in baseball.

14.8 Sacrifice
A sacrifice is credited to the batter in the following situations:
14.8.1 When a plate appearance meets the following four criteria:
1) there are fewer than two outs,
2) the batter advances one or more runners by bunting,
3) the ball must be bunted (that is, not swung at, not slapped at, not chopped at),
4) the batter is called out at first base or would have been out had no error occurred.
Note: Just as the official scorer should award base hits instead of charging errors
in cases involving doubt, a play that meets all four criteria for a sacrifice should be
scored as such instead of simply awarding a putout and assist (if applicable).

14.8.2 When, with fewer than two outs, the defense (without error) fails to get the lead runner out on any type of bunt.
14.8.3 When, with fewer than two outs, the lead runner advances by means of a bunt but a trailing runner is out.
14.8.4 When, with fewer than two outs and runners at first and third base, the pitcher fields a bunt, holds the runner at third base, throws the runner out at first base and the runner at first advances safely to second base.

14.9 clarifies the slapper
14.9 No sacrifice is credited in the following situations:
14.9.1 When a lead runner advances on a bunt because of a dropped good throw.
14.9.2 When a batter inadvertently taps the ball into fair territory and it results in a runner advancing and the batter being retired. The intent to sacrifice bunt must exist.
Note: Scoring for the left-handed running slapper should be the same as for a traditional left- or right-handed batter. If the running slapper clearly shows the intent to advance a base runner by bunting, credit a sacrifice. If the running slapper slaps or swings, charge an at-bat, even if a base runner advances.

NCAA Percentage Tables:
On-base percentage: walks+hit by pitch+hits / walks+hit by pitch+all sacrifices+at-bats = BB+HBP+H / BB+HBP+SAC+AB
Reached-base percentage: any possible way batter reached base safely / plate appearances - sacrifice bunts = total on-base / PA-SAC/SH
User avatar
oconnor.jb
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: Cumming, GA

Re: Stat question - Calculating OBP

Post by oconnor.jb » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:23 pm

OK, then, so I'd be happy with an RBP column being computed and displayed and then OBP can follow the "Baseball/Softball" switch.
User avatar
OhioTex
Posts: 5491
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 6:48 am
Location: Columbus OH

Re: Stat question - Calculating OBP

Post by OhioTex » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:00 pm

1) Reached Base Percentage (RBP) as Calculated by NCAA ... would be a nice add to iScore stable of Stats for fastpitch players.. (but not a super high priority in my mind).

2) the citations from CS thunder reiterates that a slap is not a bunt and treated like a hit not a bunt in terms of OBP. FTM has already said in prior posts they are looking to add a Slap Hit type in future release ..

3) @ CS thunder - I continue to believe the OBP calc in iSocre is accurate for both baseball and Softball.

my copy of NCAA softball Rules (2012-2013, Page 185 Rule 14.33) includes Sacrifice Flies in the denominator of OBP calculation but not Sacrifice bunts (i.e consistent with baseball) .. the abbreviations include SF not SAC/SH .. which makes NCAA softball consistent with baseball. (source page 185, Rule 14.33)

source: NCAA Softball Rule 14

OBP

walks+hit by pitch+hits
------------------------------------
walks+hit by pitch+sacrifice flies+at-bats

aka

BB+HBP+H
----------
BB+HBP+SF+AB

RBP
any possible way batter reached base safely
-----------------------------------
plate appearances minus sacrifice bunts

total on-base
----------------------
total on-base PA-SAC/SH
User avatar
CSThunderCoach
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:55 am
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Re: Stat question - Calculating OBP

Post by CSThunderCoach » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:07 am

Sorry. Been busy with the high school season.

@OhioTex - you are correct. The wording of the OBP has been clarified in the 2012-2013 version of the rules. The calculation that I provided was defined with "sacrifices" going back to 2008 (oldest copy I have).
I have not found anything explaining the clarification other than to assume those of us that (mis)understood "SAC" and "sacrifices" to mean both SF + SAC/SH [since they go to the effort of defining each one independently] were too stupid to know the difference. :)
User avatar
grstatdoc
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:24 am
Location: Surprise, Ariz.

Re: Stat question - Calculating OBP

Post by grstatdoc » Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:32 pm

CSThunderCoach wrote:Sacrifice bunts should be included in the Softball stats to be correct, but since 99% of applications don't most don't know that they should.
Sorry I'm 2 1/2 years late, but consulting the NCAA Softball rule book, on-base percentage is calculated as:

(walks + hit by pitch + hits) / (walks + hit by pitch + sacrifice flies + at-bats)

which lines up with the baseball formula. (Sorry OhioTex for echoing what you wrote :roll: _

Interestingly, the 2012-13 NCAA Softball Rules have sac flies in the denominator, while the 2012 softball stats manual (which is Rule 14), has sacrifices in the denominator. I suspect that the formula was revised after 2011 to conform more to the baseball formula.

Lesson: Keep current with your rule book!
User avatar
OhioTex
Posts: 5491
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 6:48 am
Location: Columbus OH

Re: Stat question - Calculating OBP

Post by OhioTex » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:16 am

This reminds me...

+1 for RBP stat

I don't want that to get lost .. Key highlight point in the discussion

There Variation of OBP Call RBP .. That seems like a great add to and has a defined definition by a major body. I could see youth stats and softball use this column
..........................................
iScore Baseball/Softball
* FAQ http://iscoresports.com//baseball/support.php
* Updated Manual http://iscoresports.com/baseball/manual.php?gd=1
* Stat Formulas http://data.iscorecentral.com/legend.ph ... internal=1
Post Reply