Picked Off vs CS

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tmccombs
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Picked Off vs CS

Post by tmccombs » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:10 am

Is being picked off the same as caught stealing for statistical purposes?
Bryan D Shepherd
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Re: Picked Off vs CS

Post by Bryan D Shepherd » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:16 am

No. Caught stealing is pretty self-explainatory, Picked off is when on a throw back to the base where you already are you're tagged out while off the bag. Hence, picked off the base.
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FTMSupport
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Re: Picked Off vs CS

Post by FTMSupport » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:53 am

Caught Stealing has an effect on the runner's offensive stats, picked off does not. It's still bad for the runner, but is more of a mental mistake whereas being caught stealing is physical.
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tmccombs
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Re: Picked Off vs CS

Post by tmccombs » Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:01 pm

I understand the difference between the two, and you also have to determine whether or not the runner made any move or fake toward the next base before scoring the play. My question stems from a statisical point of view (I should have been more clear) when calculating Runs Created. Net basestealing ability is figured in using SB and CS. There is no reference to being picked off. My thought is that this stat would be negatively affected if a runner was EITHER picked off or caught stealing. Why would being picked off not be included in the calculation?
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FTMSupport
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Re: Picked Off vs CS

Post by FTMSupport » Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:06 pm

The runner did not make an attempt to do anything in this case. Pickoff is a defensive play, not an offensive play. Caught stealing is an offensive play.

You can kind of liken it to mental errors on fielders. For example, a ball hit to a fielder, and he makes a bad throw. This is an error. If the fielder decides to hold the ball instead of throwing it, it is not an error --- it is a mental mistake, but not an error (though the batter may not necessarily be given a hit... could be Fielders Choice or Defensive Indifference in that case, but not an error).
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Bryan D Shepherd
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Re: Picked Off vs CS

Post by Bryan D Shepherd » Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:54 pm

Ah, I apologize for the confusion.
Mark Klopfenstein
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Re: Picked Off vs CS

Post by Mark Klopfenstein » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:02 pm

What if the runner at first is napping (mental mistake), and the pitcher throws to the first baseman, who has the runner trapped off the base. Rather than going back to first right into the tag, the runner breaks for second. The first baseman throws to the shortstop covering, who tags the runner for the out. Is this a "caught stealing" or a "pick off"? How do the iScore stats contemplate this situation?
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FTMSupport
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Re: Picked Off vs CS

Post by FTMSupport » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:25 pm

The iScore stats don't make the decision, the scorekeeper does. You can enter caught stealing or pickoff as appropriate. It sounds to us like it is a pickoff if the runner was caught sleeping at first and was not trying an intentional delayed steal.
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baseaburo
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Re: Picked Off vs CS

Post by baseaburo » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:00 am

Here is one for you guys:

Left-handed pitcher on the mound. Runner on first only.

The runner is running on first move.

Pitcher lifts his leg. Runners runs to steal second.

Pitcher picks over to first.

First baseman throws to second and the runner is tagged out.

Is this scored as a pickoff, caught stealing, or both?
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mprusak
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Re: Picked Off vs CS

Post by mprusak » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:18 am

I've always thought if the runner breaks for the next base and is tagged out, it goes as a Caught Stealing.
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