Line Drive caught and Double Play

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Stadtusquo
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Line Drive caught and Double Play

Post by Stadtusquo » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:19 am

How do I input the following:
Line Drive caught by 1B and then promptly steps on 1B to double off runner? would it be:
3-3?
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OhioTex
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Re: Line Drive caught and Double Play

Post by OhioTex » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:01 am

depends how you want the score card to look.
(will correctly give first red circle out to batter and second red circle out to runner)

tap...
Out > Line Drive > location > 1B ...
(this gives you the red 3 for batter, if you want 3-3 hit 1B twice to get 3-3, your preference)

What happened to runner at first?

if you choose Out > double play, batter gets DP3 in red, and Runner gets red FO#
(where # is the batters order in line up) (this is my preference)

if you choose Out > force out, batter gets red 3, (no DP mark), and runner gets FO# ,

if you choose Out > tag out, batter gets red 3, and runner gets TO3 (not technically correct as it is a force even if physically tagged, but some like to see the first baseman again here)



by design, the DP shows up in the batters box not the runners score box .
johnemc
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Re: Line Drive caught and Double Play

Post by johnemc » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:51 am

The first option mentioned, "What happened to runner?, Out > double play", gives a GDP in the stats for the batter. Is there an official rule on whether a line drive should be recorded as a "Ground into Double Play"?
GatorBoy
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Re: Line Drive caught and Double Play

Post by GatorBoy » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:58 am

IMHO this is not a double play. Yes two outs were recorded, but a double play consists of making two "forced" outs in which any runs that cross the plate if the third out was made on the DP do not count. The batter is penalized for hitting into a forced double play. A force play is when a runner is "forced" to run to the next base because the batter has become a runner. This case however was a baserunning error even though the runner didn't have a chance.

In your senario when the batter is out by a caught fly, or line drive all forces are removed. By stepping on 1B after catching the line drive the runner is out by a failure to tag up. Any runs that crossed the plate before that out SHALL be recorded as a run.

I would have scored it Out > Line drive > location > 1B

What happend to runner on 1st?

Out > Left Base Early

If this was the 3rd out then any runs that crossed the plate prior to the 1B stepping on 1B should be recorded. I have confirmed a fake game using the app myself that the run would be counted. For instance, runner of 1B and 3B with one out. Batter hits a long pop fly to left field. LF catches fly ball ball (second out) and runner on 3B tags up properly and scores, runner on 1B failed to tag (left early) and was thrown out by LF after 3B scored. The app correctly counted the run and ended the inning after making the last out at 1B.
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OhioTex
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Re: Line Drive caught and Double Play

Post by OhioTex » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:38 am

oops, you did say line drive.. my bad.. agree would not want the batter to get dinged with a GDP.

I was focused on the various was to manipulate the scorebook PDF display and was not thinking about the underlying GDP stat implications. a number of double play questions have been around the order of outs being depitced correctly on normal and reverse double plays. good point onthe GDP stat implication
PetroGuy
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Re: Line Drive caught and Double Play

Post by PetroGuy » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:58 am

Per MLB Rules:
10.11 Double And Triple Plays
The official scorer shall credit participation in a double play or triple play to each fielder who earns a putout or an assist when two or three players are put out between the time a pitch is delivered and the time the ball next becomes dead or is next in possession of the pitcher in a pitching position, unless an error or misplay intervenes between putouts.
Rule 10.11 Comment: The official scorer shall credit a double play or triple play also if an appeal play after the ball is in possession of the pitcher results in an additional putout.
I would call the play a double play but I would agree that it wouldn't be a GDP. It should not even take two force outs for a GDP. For instance, with R1 and the batter hits a grounder to first, F3 fields the ball, steps on first and throws to F6 for the tag on R1. That is a classic double play and a GDP, but there is only one force. Once F3 touches first, R1 does not have to advance.

I haven't found any rules that govern GDP. Does anyone else know of any published guidelines for it?
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FTMSupport
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Re: Line Drive caught and Double Play

Post by FTMSupport » Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:05 am

We have actually fixed this for the next release so the GDP stat only counts when grounding into double plays. The fielding team still gets credit for a DP in either situation, but the batter is only charged a GDP in the case of a ground out double play.
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OhioTex
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Re: Line Drive caught and Double Play

Post by OhioTex » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:37 am

PetroGuy wrote:
I haven't found any rules that govern GDP. Does anyone else know of any published guidelines for it?
Here it is...


MLB official scoring rule 10.02 (a) (17)
10.02 Official Score Report
The official score report prepared by the official scorer shall be in a form prescribed by the league and shall include:
(a) The following records for each batter and runner:
(17) Number of force double plays and reverse-force double plays grounded into

(ed update: note specifically calls out 'ground into' DPs, as the stat to track)

To your other point, reverse double plays that involve tag outs, not two force outs are double plays. (see post in other area)
TexasRebel
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Re: Line Drive caught and Double Play

Post by TexasRebel » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:52 pm

"Left Base Early" is one of the features for slow pitch softball, where you cannot leave the base until the ball crosses the plate.

An out because of a fly ball, line drive, or popup and then a runner getting caught off base is considered a force out, and a double play.
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grstatdoc
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Re: Line Drive caught and Double Play

Post by grstatdoc » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:43 pm

PetroGuy wrote:Per MLB Rules:
10.11 Double And Triple Plays
The official scorer shall credit participation in a double play or triple play to each fielder who earns a putout or an assist when two or three players are put out between the time a pitch is delivered and the time the ball next becomes dead or is next in possession of the pitcher in a pitching position, unless an error or misplay intervenes between putouts.
Rule 10.11 Comment: The official scorer shall credit a double play or triple play also if an appeal play after the ball is in possession of the pitcher results in an additional putout.
I would call the play a double play but I would agree that it wouldn't be a GDP. It should not even take two force outs for a GDP. For instance, with R1 and the batter hits a grounder to first, F3 fields the ball, steps on first and throws to F6 for the tag on R1. That is a classic double play and a GDP, but there is only one force. Once F3 touches first, R1 does not have to advance.

I haven't found any rules that govern GDP. Does anyone else know of any published guidelines for it?
The definition of a reverse force double play from MLB rule 2.00:
(b) A reverse force double play is one in which the first out is a force play and the second out is made on a runner for whom the force is removed by reason of the first out. Examples of reverse force plays: runner on first, one out; batter grounds to first baseman, who steps on first base (one out) and throws to second baseman or shortstop for the second out (a tag play).
Another example: bases loaded, none out; batter grounds to third baseman, who steps on third base (one out); then throws to catcher for the second out (tag play).
Note that in the two examples, a force situation existed at the start of the play (for R1 in the first example and R3 in the second, and was removed on the first out (the runner must now be tagged out). Contrast with the following DP:

With a runner on second, batter grounds to 1B who steps on first to retire the batter and throws to third to retire the runner attempting to advance from second is not a reverse force double play because the force situation did not exist in the first place (to be removed by the out at first base), and thus the batter is properly not charged with a GDP.

One quirk in charging GDPs:
(1) Rule 10.02(a)(17) Comment: The official scorer should not charge a batter with grounding into a double play if the batter-runner is called out due to interference by a preceding runner.
An example of this would be R1, R3. batter grounds to SS, who throws to 2B at second to put out R1. R1 is then called for interfering with the 2B's throw to first, resulting in the batter being declared out. Scoring-wise, it's a 6-4-3 DP for the batter, but he is not charged with a GDP by reason of R1's interference.

I'm looking at 10.04(b)(2) to see if (muffed good throw that would have completed a force DP nullifying an RBI) is also a quirk.
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