How to score a failed delayed double steal...

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TexasRebel
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:55 pm
Location: College Station, Texas

How to score a failed delayed double steal...

Post by TexasRebel » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:05 pm

2 away

runners on the corners,

runner(1B) takes off for second, runner(3B) breaks for home on the throw

Runner(1B) safe at 2nd before runner(3B) tagged out 2-4-5-2

is this what the "on the throw" button is for? It shouldn't be a stolen base for runner(1B)

Keystrokes?:
runner(1B)
Safe
Second
on the throw
runner(3B)
out
home
caught stealing
2-4-5-2
done
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FTMSupport
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Re: How to score a failed delayed double steal...

Post by FTMSupport » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:31 pm

If you determine the runner that was going to second would have been out had they decided to not make the play at home, then the runner reaching second can be scored as either "On the Throw" or "Defensive Indifference". "Defensive Indifference" comes up a lot in youth sports in a first and third situation --- defense just lets the runner advance to second to avoid having the runner on third score. (Another situation would be the throw from the catcher to the shortstop running in right behind the pitcher trying to get the runner to make a break for home... in this case, the defense never intended to make a play at second, so it would be Defensive Indifference.)

If you feel the runner would have been safe at second on the throw down had they actually tried to tag him, then you may still want to credit the runner with a Stolen Base.
TexasRebel
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Re: How to score a failed delayed double steal...

Post by TexasRebel » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:27 am

In the NCAA rulebook (I'm scoring college ball):

"Where any runner is thrown out on an attempted double or triple
steal, no runner shall be credited with a stolen base.
Note: On a double-steal attempt with runners on first and third bases, if there
is a legitimate attempt by the fielder to retire the runner at second base and
the runner is safe, that runner shall be credited with a stolen base even if the
runner from third is thrown out at home on a continuous play."

There was no actual attempt to get the runner at 2nd, the second baseman cut off the throw and fired to 3rd, who threw home.


The official play by play reads:

Player A singled to shortstop (1-2 SSFB); Player B
advanced to third. Player A advanced to second; Player B out at home c to 2b to
3b to c, caught stealing.

so it sounds like indifference would be the one...
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OhioTex
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Re: How to score a failed delayed double steal...

Post by OhioTex » Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:49 am

similar rule in MLB,

10.07 Stolen Bases And Caught Stealing
...
d) When a double- or triple-steal is attempted and one runner is thrown out before reaching and holding the base such runner is attempting to steal, no other runner shall be credited with a stolen base.
...
g) The official scorer shall not score a stolen base when a runner advances solely because of the defensive team's indifference to the runner’s advance. The official scorer shall score such a play as a fielder's choice.
...
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grstatdoc
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Re: How to score a failed delayed double steal...

Post by grstatdoc » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:18 am

Here is an interesting difference between NCAA and MLB rules regarding double steal attempts.
(Sorry for "being so late" here; this is my second day as a forum member, and I've been reading the past posts to get caught up. [And, as a veteran scorer, I find it fascinating to read scoring questions/discussions])

OhioTex is correct in quoting 10.07. Essentially, it's an "all or nothing" scenario as both R1 and R3 must be safe or no one gets credit for an SB
Texas Rebel is correct in quoting the NCAA book, which does allow for R1 to get credit for an SB despite R3 getting caught stealing (note to 10.11.1, which has been earlier quoted)

The comment to OBR 10.07(g) is useful to digest, as the defense can only play against one runner at a time (so playing against R3 does not imply that they were indifferent to R1's attempted advance in this case.)
Rule 10.07(g) Comment: The scorer shall consider, in judging whether the defensive team has been indifferent to a runner’s advance, the totality of the circumstances, including the inning and score of the game, whether the defensive team had held the runner on base, whether the pitcher had made any pickoff attempts on that runner before the runner’s advance, whether the fielder ordinarily expected to cover the base to which the runner advanced made a move to cover such base, whether the defensive team had a legitimate strategic motive to not contest the runner’s advance or whether the defensive team might be trying impermissibly to deny the runner credit for a stolen base. For example, with runners on first and third bases, the official scorer should ordinarily credit a stolen base when the runner on first advances to second, if, in the scorer’s judgment, the defensive team had a legitimate strategic motive—namely, preventing the runner on third base from scoring on the throw to second base—not to contest the runner’s advance to second base. The official scorer may conclude that the defensive team is impermissibly trying to deny a runner credit for a stolen base if, for example, the defensive team fails to defend the advance of a runner approaching a league or career record or a league statistical title.
Where the MLB rules are used, score R3 as caught stealing (with the putouts and assists) and R1 as advancing on the throw (a division of fielder's choice)
If, as Texas Rebel observed, there was no attempt to put out R1, then it follows the MLB ruling
The NFHS book rewrite of 2003 follows the NCAA rules
Below the high school level will depend on the scoring rules for that level (one's mileage will vary) :!:

Hope this proves helpful.
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