I've been wondering about this and this evening was looking over the illustrated score card examples.
Situation is this: two outs, runner on first and batter hits a grounder to short who flips ball to second baseman covering. This obviously is the definition of a fielder's choice, but does the fact that it's the third out make any difference? The iScore example seems to show it as a force out without noting the FC.
What's right?
Fielders choice
Re: Fielders choice
It is a force when scoring it via iScore. However, the stats show the batter with a fielder's choice for that at bat.
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Re: Fielders choice
The batter is scored as a 6-4 out since it was the last out due to a force, therefore the batter is not credited a fielder's choice for reaching 1st base.
Reason for the fielder's choice in stats is credited to On Base Percentage. Since the third out was recorded by a force out the batter can not be credited with OBP.
If there were 0 or 1 out it would be scored a fielder's choice and the runner at second is scored 6-4 force out. Because the batter reached first base safely because they decided to get the lead runner out instead.
Another scenario I see is a runner at 2nd. Ground ball deep in the hole at short and short fields and throws to 3rd baseman and tags the runner out. As an official scorer you have to determine could the SS have thrown the batter out at 1st? If not then scored a 1B and runner tagged out 6-5. But I have seen people rule this a FC. Not correct.
If this is the 3rd out. When was the out recorded since it was not a force? Did the runner at first reach 1st base before the tag was made or afterwards? If the out is recorded after the runner reaches 1st, it should be a single and then runner tagged out to end the inning? Is if the runner is tagged out before the batter reaches first? How is the batter recorded? I would assume just hit into an out if they did not reach 1st before the tag was made?
Reason for the fielder's choice in stats is credited to On Base Percentage. Since the third out was recorded by a force out the batter can not be credited with OBP.
If there were 0 or 1 out it would be scored a fielder's choice and the runner at second is scored 6-4 force out. Because the batter reached first base safely because they decided to get the lead runner out instead.
Another scenario I see is a runner at 2nd. Ground ball deep in the hole at short and short fields and throws to 3rd baseman and tags the runner out. As an official scorer you have to determine could the SS have thrown the batter out at 1st? If not then scored a 1B and runner tagged out 6-5. But I have seen people rule this a FC. Not correct.
If this is the 3rd out. When was the out recorded since it was not a force? Did the runner at first reach 1st base before the tag was made or afterwards? If the out is recorded after the runner reaches 1st, it should be a single and then runner tagged out to end the inning? Is if the runner is tagged out before the batter reaches first? How is the batter recorded? I would assume just hit into an out if they did not reach 1st before the tag was made?
Re: Fielders choice
I disagree Ut0008.
The batter is charged an offical at bat. (regardless if 0,1,2 outs)
He hit into a fielders choice .batter is not out 6-4. runner@1 is forced out 6-4 on the play
Reaching by Fielders choice ( or reaching by error) does not increase batters on base percentage stat , it lowers OBP.
The batter is charged an offical at bat. (regardless if 0,1,2 outs)
He hit into a fielders choice .batter is not out 6-4. runner@1 is forced out 6-4 on the play
Reaching by Fielders choice ( or reaching by error) does not increase batters on base percentage stat , it lowers OBP.
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iScore Baseball/Softball
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Re: Fielders choice
I agree with OhioTex. This is always a Fielder's Choice on the batter. The runner that is forced out is put out and that is how it is scored. The batter get's credited with an at bat but no hit.
I partially agree with you on this second scenario. The scorer does need to consider the timing of the play at first. If they determine the fielder could not have retired the batter, then the batter could be credited with a hit if the runner going to third was tagged out after the batter reaches first. If the tag is applied before the batter reaches first or if the scorer determines the fielder could have retired the batter, then this should be scored an FC for the batter.ut00081 wrote:Another scenario I see is a runner at 2nd. Ground ball deep in the hole at short and short fields and throws to 3rd baseman and tags the runner out. As an official scorer you have to determine could the SS have thrown the batter out at 1st? If not then scored a 1B and runner tagged out 6-5. But I have seen people rule this a FC. Not correct.
If this is the 3rd out. When was the out recorded since it was not a force? Did the runner at first reach 1st base before the tag was made or afterwards? If the out is recorded after the runner reaches 1st, it should be a single and then runner tagged out to end the inning? Is if the runner is tagged out before the batter reaches first? How is the batter recorded? I would assume just hit into an out if they did not reach 1st before the tag was made?
Check out the iScore documentation page!
Includes videos and user manual.
http://iscoresports.com/baseball/training.php#docs
Includes videos and user manual.
http://iscoresports.com/baseball/training.php#docs