Earned or Unearned Run?

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ktpinnacle
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Earned or Unearned Run?

Post by ktpinnacle » Sat May 09, 2015 8:45 pm

Had a play today we discussed.

Batter 1 - walk
Batter 2 - single, runner advanced to 2nd. Runners on 1st and 2nd.
Batter 3 - bunt, error by pitcher on throw to first, runner on 2nd scores, runner on 1st goes to 3rd.
Batter 4 - 5-3 groundout (infield in), no run scores
Batter 5 - 4-3 groundout (infield in), no run scores
Batter 6 - K

Is the run earned or unearned?
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FTMSupport
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Re: Earned or Unearned Run?

Post by FTMSupport » Sat May 09, 2015 9:27 pm

If there were no errors, would the run have scored? If not, then it would be unearned. If it would have scored, then it would be earned.
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ixamnis
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Re: Earned or Unearned Run?

Post by ixamnis » Sun May 10, 2015 11:33 am

Based on your description. I would say the run was unearned. The runner on second scored directly because of the error and based on the runner who ended up on third never scoring it doesn't appear the runner would have scored later in the inning either. My only question is does the second part of that even matter?
ktpinnacle
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Re: Earned or Unearned Run?

Post by ktpinnacle » Mon May 11, 2015 10:19 am

We share the same take on this one. If the bunt was successful and no error was made, runners would have been on 2nd and 3rd with one out. The infield was brought in and the groundout to third would have held the runners (as it did when there was only a runner on third after the error was made). The subsequent groundout to second would have ended the inning with no runs scored.
Taxi_dad
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Re: Earned or Unearned Run?

Post by Taxi_dad » Mon May 11, 2015 12:08 pm

I agree with the comments. Unearned run. The proof is given by the runner in third who was never been able to score before the third defense opprtunity.
Do not forget to credit batter #3 with a sacrifice hit as no one mentioned it: Sac Hit, Reached on a throwing error by pitcher.
ixamnis
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Re: Earned or Unearned Run?

Post by ixamnis » Tue May 12, 2015 8:14 am

Using this same example, my questions still are: If all else is the same, how many earned and unearned runs are there if batter 4 hits a home run? What if batter 5 hits a home run? What if batter 6 hits a home run?
PetroGuy
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Re: Earned or Unearned Run?

Post by PetroGuy » Tue May 12, 2015 11:16 am

ixamnis wrote:Using this same example, my questions still are: If all else is the same, how many earned and unearned runs are there if batter 4 hits a home run? What if batter 5 hits a home run? What if batter 6 hits a home run?
If batter 4 homers, I see 3 earned runs.
If batter 4 is out as in the initial and then batter 5 homers, I again see 3 earned runs.
If batters 4 & 5 are out as in the initial post and then batter 6 homers, I don't see any earned runs.
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ixamnis
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Re: Earned or Unearned Run?

Post by ixamnis » Tue May 12, 2015 5:20 pm

I was thinking there would still only be 2 earned runs if batters 4 or 5 homered. What I am trying to find out is what does it mean when rule 14.24.3 of the NCAA softball says "unearned runs are runs directly attributed to the defense miscues". If batter 1 who reached on a walk scores directly because of the error at first on batter 3 is that an unearned run regardless of what happens after it ? Or do you still reconstruct the inning and in the case of batter 4 or 5 homering it becomes an earned run because it would have scored anyway? I am assuming you are saying if batter 3 scores because of a home run by batters 4 or 5 it is unearned regardless because of reaching base on error. I am on the same page with no earned runs if batter 6 homers because there was an opportunity by then to make 3 outs.
ETBill
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Re: Earned or Unearned Run?

Post by ETBill » Tue May 12, 2015 8:07 pm

ixamnis wrote:I was thinking there would still only be 2 earned runs if batters 4 or 5 homered. What I am trying to find out is what does it mean when rule 14.24.3 of the NCAA softball says "unearned runs are runs directly attributed to the defense miscues". If batter 1 who reached on a walk scores directly because of the error at first on batter 3 is that an unearned run regardless of what happens after it ? Or do you still reconstruct the inning and in the case of batter 4 or 5 homering it becomes an earned run because it would have scored anyway? I am assuming you are saying if batter 3 scores because of a home run by batters 4 or 5 it is unearned regardless because of reaching base on error. I am on the same page with no earned runs if batter 6 homers because there was an opportunity by then to make 3 outs.
Admittedly I'm not familiar with softball scoring, but based on your quote from the rules above...You always reconstruct the inning without errors to determine earned/unearned status. The difference in batters 1 and 3 is what the error meant to their status on the bases. The error allowed batter 1 to advance an extra base but it wasn't the difference in that batter being safe or out. The error is the only reason batter 3 is safe...if not for the error, he/she is out. For that reason, any run by batter 3 is unearned. In the original example, batter 1 would never have advanced to home if not for the error...he/she would've been stranded at 3rd. Thus, the run is unearned. In the home run case, he/she would score. In reality he/she did gain a base due to the error, but in the long term that didn't matter because he/she would've scored due to the HR. Therefore, in that case the run is earned.

At least that's my take on it...
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